American / European Incomprehension.

Englishman

Reading through some of the posts re the McVeigh debate, it's obvious that there is a huge divide between the USA and Europe over many issues, in particular with reference to the way that society should deal with deviants.

I think that there is a lot of other cultural differences between our societies, and I'm just wondering if this is why the WTBTS has had a far higher "conversion factor" in the USA than in Europe.

Some of the phraseology contained in the Watchtower magazines is incomprehensible to Europeans. I remember that words that are in common usage now, were, when first used in the WT, totally baffling.

The expression "No way" wasn't in common use until years after the WT featured it, like wise with "Points up", also "Right on" meant nothing to anyone. Indeed, many return visits to placed magazine householders resulted in them asking a bewildered dub for an explanation of these then strange terms. Said dub couldn't make head nor tail of it either.

Dont take this the wrong way all you Yanks, but witnessism is in fact, a very American religion. For us Europeans its sort of familiar-but-foreign, if you like its rather like an experienced American driver motoring through the UK. Everything is fairly familiar except for the fact that we make you drive on, what is to you, the wrong side of the road. Its very, very exhausting!

Englishman.

..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

Francois

Yes, there does seem to be something raw and unabashed about the way we Yanks go about things. There especiallly seems to be almost, well, worship of the empirical. Not to say it doesn't have its place, but abandonment of the intuitive, reflective, meditative approach can't be doing us much good.

My $0.02

Tina

(((((((((Eguy)))))))))Cor strike a light Guv!
Seems like Americans have more wacky religions,because it's such an evangelical culture.
The phrases the wts uses are usually archaic anyway. Most people don't even speak that way here. Part of the 'conformity' they use.
Take care.luv,Tina

Prisca

E-man,

I agree. Aussies have a certain feeling towards the Yanks (Americans of ALL states) that is a reaction to the "invasion" of all things American after WW2.

Americans act like everyone knows and share their language, their customs, their attitudes. Well, the rest of the world wouldn't have, if it wasn't for the infiltration of the American way of life on the rest of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I know and LIKE some Americans, LOL.

But the rest of the world is VERY different to America. We don't talk like you guys (even "guys" is an American term, shock, horror!)

So when the mags are printed and distributed here, it is common to come across Americanisms that are foreign to us. Grammar, terminology, even placement of words in a sentence are different to how they are said outside of the USA.

So possibly, this is why the WTS was more accepted in the Americas than anywhere else. It is still regarded as an American religion, even though the magazines are printed in Australia.

Afterall, the WTS' HQ is based in America. The GB are all Americans (except for the late Lloyd Barry), the dramas are done by Americans and the whole concept of the Society's heirachy is American-based.

Not that there's anything wrong with that..... LOL

chasson

Hi eng,

>Dont take this the wrong way all you Yanks, but witnessism is in fact, a very American religion.

Yes, but in traditional catholic's country his message make them more revolutionnary that they are. In France, The Wt seems to be a "religious's resistant" against the major's way of worship. When i realized that this hate of the Catholic's church was created by american's people living in a more protestant's country than France, i have stopped to see the Wt as a "resistant". In fact, Catholics are a minority in the States, Kennedy was the first catholic's president.

So, The Wt is not a "spiritual's resistant" just a traditionnal "fundies organisation" of the States.

Bye

Charles

outnfree

I just have to take the time to reiterate what Tina pointed out:

MOST AMERICANS DO NOT SPEAK THE WAY THE WATCHTOWER WRITES!!!!

My kids used to notice the stilted way things were put and just sit there repeating the odd turns of phrase over and over trying to get it (and, of course, mocking it at the same time).

Nonetheless, having traveled abroad, I am well aware that Americans have a nasty habit of just assuming that all English speakers will understand American slang and idioms and that anyone who doesn't is uneducated at the least and a boor at worst. It's truly pitiful.

outnfree
(who tries very hard NOT to be the 'ugly American' when she travels!)

COMF

The expression "No way" wasn't in common use until years after the WT featured it, like wise with "Points up", also "Right on" meant nothing to anyone.

You're puzzling me now, E. I can imagine "points up" being in a Watchtower, but the other two I don't recall seeing in there. "No way" is just a bit of teenage slang that caught on in the sixties and didn't fade away like "far out" and "psychedelic." Sometime later, in the eighties, a new generation added "Yes, way" to it, and with that extra momentum it stuck around until now. As for "right on," that originated with the Black Panthers, if I remember correctly. If not them, then with black Americans in general (they called themselves Afro-American then; now it's African-American). Like many expressions the black population started, "right on" became popular across racial lines and everybody used it. Backed by his veddy British two-man band, Jimi Hendrix sang it: "Right on... straight ahead..." Cheech and Chong, the comedy duo who got famous doing skits about the drug scene, used a parody of it -

Cheech: Which arm?
Chong: Right arm, man!

I sure can't recall ever seeing it in a Watchtower, though.

Fact is, the Watchtower boys pretty much have their own way of speaking, which comes across as weird even to typical American types. There have been some highly ludicrous titles to magazine articles over the years, but one of the weirdest was one where the author appeared to have just returned from a refresher course in dangling participles. I don't remember the exact title, but it was something like, "The Ruler, Than Which There Is No Greater". No way is that normal American speech, man.

Prisca:

Americans act like everyone knows and share their language, their customs, their attitudes.

Maybe it's just that Americans speak and behave according to what they know, reckon? How is an average person of any nation, living and working his life away in a typical town in the middle of his country, supposed to know how much of his everyday life exists and how much doesn't exist on another continent? If I've always used a fork to eat, when it's time to eat I'm going to look for a fork, not chopsticks. If I've got habits and mannerisms deeply ingrained in me, and I've never encountered anything different, how am I to know which of my habits are universal and which are peculiar to the area where I live?

It's only by exposure to different ways of doing things that we even learn of their existence.

Well, the rest of the world wouldn't have, if it wasn't for the infiltration of the American way of life on the rest of the world.

So... stop it! If Aussies don't want MacDonalds franchises popping up like mushrooms all over Oz, then by god stop selling pieces of land to MacDonalds! Stop taking mamager jobs in the stores!

So possibly, this is why the WTS was more accepted in the Americas than anywhere else.

Makes sense to me.

COMF

fodeja

The GB are all Americans (except for the late Lloyd Barry) ...

Gerrit Lösch is (was) from Austria. But I agree that JWism does have a strong American touch to it, in spite of all attempts to make it look like a universal, "culturally neutral" religion.

f.

Prisca

COMF said :

How is an average person of any nation, living and working his life away in a typical town in the middle of his country, supposed to know how much of his everyday life exists and how much doesn't exist on another continent?
... how am I to know which of my habits are universal and which are peculiar to the area where I live?
It's only by exposure to different ways of doing things that we even learn of their existence.

Exactly, though I'd call it self-education. Willingly exposing yourself to other cultures, customs and countries that you are not familiar with. I grew up in a small country town renowned for its annual country music festival and its rural produce. Yet I was aware of other customs and cultures from around the world, in part to the credit of my parents, but also through my wanting to learn about the world around me.

When I was in America a few years ago, I was surprised by the ignorance of the American people. I was even asked if we spoke English in my country!!! I do not blame the people themselves; it is the whole culture of America that prevents understanding and learning of other peoples. Only Americans themselves can rid themselves of this ignorance.

How? By educating themselves. Obviously not by relying on the popular media, but getting out there and finding the resources that do this.

And I don't apply this to just Americans. If more JWs exposed themselves to information other than the norm, they would be educated in a different sense, wouldn't they?

jelly

Hello All,

I see a lot of the European and Australian members of this board lamenting of Americans lack of knowledge of their culture. Just so you know this is probably caused by two things:

(1) Lack of contact, I think you would find that Americans know much more about the cultures of the Spanish-speaking world and Asia.
(2) Honestly most Americans don’t really care about Europe; there has always been a strong isolationist lobby here when it comes to Europe.

Jelly

American / European Incomprehension.

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