You Know,
Love the humour. Weren't Ike's parents in the dubs?
Englishman.
..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.
I getting bored with this Board
by OlderTom 37 Replies latest jw friends
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AGuest
May I ask just what WOULD you like to discuss, 'OT? Perhaps there are some here interested in the same thing. Sometimes, you hafta start your own thread topic, you know?
If there's anything I can 'discuss' with you, feel free to let me know. And I will let you know if I can ('cause if it's, well, you know, 'ugly' stuff... I'll pass... and if its WTBTS stuff, well, it depends on just what 'stuff', you know?)
Peace to you!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
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proplog2
I have been on JW boards since 1988 (remember GEnie). My original purpose was to see if some of my lingering questions could be answered. Like many I have written to the Watchtower with serious questions. Years ago you would get an answer. For the last 20 years they refuse to engage in any serious dialog about difficult issues.
In 1988-1994 you had a lot of JW apoligists that would give you some good arguments. This made me hone my logic skills. Instead of being persuaded that the Watchtower was the truth it became clear to me that they had little defense. To me "truth" ought to be defensible. I have a lot of my old posts archived. From time to time I would refer to a percentage of Watchtower teachings I believed. In my early posts I used to say I believe 90%. Then 75%. Then 50% After that I never put a figure on it. I think I'm at about 10%
Most JW's have left the building. There are now many voices on the internet who have become skilled at refuting Watchtower reasoning. A JW doesn't have a chance anymore of entering a discussion without coming out looking stupid. The only JW's who try to say anything in these forums are those who stumble on them for the first time. They don't leave. They are lurking AND thinking. YOU KNOW is just a guy who likes to argue. He seldom has a defensible premise and envisions himself as a prophet to apostates...Whatever...
Older Tom.. just coming on and saying you're bored is GOOD. Look at all the interest your statement generated.
I will continue to participate in these forums until the Watchtower learns that it has to answer letters and deal with the arguments.
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larc
Old Tom,
I wish you would reconsider, or a least give our group your recollections of your early days as a Witness. I have done some of this myself. For example, I remember attending the 1958 world assembly in New York. I was 18 at the time. There was one person in our group from Ohio that thought that the "ancient worthies" that were supposed to return to live at Beth Sarim would return and make their appearance to us at the assembly. There were people who still held on to that belief, even though the Society had not written on the subject for at least ten years. Tom, I am sure that you have stories and memories like that, that others here would find interesting. I hope you would share some of those with us.
Why do I post? Like Waiting, Amazing and others, I want to give back to others from my knowledge and experience. I have been out longer than most people here have lived, yet I feel an affinity for younger ones who have left. The problems and issues have not changed over time.
Having been out so long, the residual effects of the Witness experience are minimal. However, I enjoy posting here and sharing experiences. The outside world can not understand fully what we have experienced and what we know. I guess it is similiar to people meeting and socializing at a VFW club.
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crittersitter
amzing
keep up the good work..i enjoy your series
fred hall....you are a boar(bore; bhore;boor)
i have family still "in" i would love them out. i was out along while before i got the 'net'. when i started to read and research i was so glad that i made my way out with little assurance it was the right thing..what a relief to know i was learning the real "truth" at last -
Farkel
Older Tom,
I for one, will miss you contributions. On the other hand, I completely understand what you are feeling. Rolling around in the sewage of the Watchtower is not fun. The religion is miserable, the doctrines and policies are ridiculous, and the people are among the sadest, most beaten-down people one could imagine.
Many times I've wondered why I continue to push myself to stay involved with that crap. Like many others, I do so with the hopes that I can help some folks to do what their religion insists every one else but their own membership to do: thoroughly examine religious teachings and actually do some hard thinking about them.
Doing research into Watchtower publications in order to present an essay or a series of observations is about as much fun as a root-canal with no anesthesia. Reading stories of idiotic judicial committees run by window washers and janitors with an attitude is about as much fun as having a shot of whiskey and then watching someone slowly whack your leg off with a rusty hand-saw.
I must be a masochist.
Farkel
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Copernicus
Amazing said:
I helped 15 people become JWs. Before I die, I hope to help 1,500 to leave, whether I do this directly or indirectly. I plan to take back with interest what they took from me ... time ... by helping people save their time and not give it to the WTS fraud.
I feel the same way.
And I wanted to thank you for the personal help you’ve unknowingly given to me over the years. Your original justices series was a big push in the right direction. Also, what was revealed in the way that you, Alan, and others took on “Harold” some time ago showed me the truly ugly nature of the WT mindset; which isn’t often exposed as effectively as it was done in that instance. His (and the ones who sided with him) complete disregard for the victims of WT abuse absolutely sickened me. I quit the meetings thereafter.
proplog2 said:
Most JW's have left the building. There are now many voices on the internet who have become skilled at refuting Watchtower reasoning. A JW doesn't have a chance anymore of entering a discussion without coming out looking stupid. The only JW's who try to say anything in these forums are those who stumble on them for the first time. They don't leave. They are lurking AND thinking. YOU KNOW is just a guy who likes to argue. He seldom has a defensible premise and envisions himself as a prophet to apostates...Whatever...
I agree with this completely, and I’ve often had the same thoughts myself. I think the downfall of the dub’s on the Internet started with the high level arguments on the talk.origens(?) board, where the falsities in the Creation book were revealed for what they were. It seemed to spread rapidly after that. I mean really, what basis for argument is there when the publications have been irrevocably showed to be riddled with intentional factual manipulations and other intellectual frauds. After reading those old posts the thought of approaching anyone to suggest joining the dub’s became nauseating to me.
So, where have all the apologists gone? Hiding behind a mental blanket of their own particular weave no doubt. Let them stay there. The pressures in our society prompt many to want to escape. The WTS peddles a drug that happens to appeal to certain types (eg: You Know, and ones if his ilk). If it weren’t that, it would be something else for them. It’s just too damn bad that families and children are being hurt in the process. That’s the criminal part. And like any criminal enterprise, it needs to be stopped.
Getting back to the point of this thread. . . Older Tom, I hope that from what I’ve written, you can remind yourself that while this board may at times get boring (and it does!), entertainment is not what we’re here for If it is, you’ve come to the wrong place.
You sounded down and depressed. I hope things turn around soon.
Copernicus
Religion IS a snare and a racket - there are no exceptions.
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unclebruce
SirFRED - If being "Free to serve Satan" means no more meekings or field servants and spending sunday morning lounging around in my underwear reading the paper with coffee and fresh breadrolls count me in pussycato!
unclebruce, serving Jehovah with a falafal in his hand.
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esther
Older Tom, you said
As far as trying to de-program and rescue the poor unfortunate brainnumbed Watchtower slaves, I think it's a total waste of time after all how do get through to people who prefer to believe in the lies when they know they are lies but they just don't want to see the real truth about the "truth(TM)"
If you really believe that, I can understand how you feel.
However, if that is true, how come there are so many leaving the Borg?
Maybe it is not that people want to believe the lies, but they are so brainwashed that it takes a lot to help them to find the real truth. Maybe they fear having nowhere to go, being out in the cold and alone? There are many possible reasons for people to stay with what they know until they find something better.
Just a couple of thoughts from someone who has only recently discovered that the WTS is a fraud.
esther
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OlderTom
Well!!! I never....
Thank you all for your words of encourangement. What can I say. Especially "Amazing"I used to feel like that, wanting to help people but I guess now I have to help myself get started again with a new life. I was only a Watchtower prisoner for about 3 years but I paid dearly. Many many paid much more I know.
The watchtower cost me about $100,000. A mariage, A family, and about 20 good friends. At my age it's hard to make new friends especially when you have been brainwashed to look down on everyone. I'm working on it but it's not easy.
The 100k I can regain in a few years but the family members I lost look like they are lost forever. The inlaws I lost I can do without.
I guess I get so frustrated with people who can see and admit there are problems in the Watchtower yet they continue to follow and hand over control of their lives to the Watchtower.
I get so frustrated when I hear people acknowledge their problems but they won't get of their asses and do something to improve their lot. Instead they wait on jehovah to fix their problems. It's gonna be a long wait.
I get so frustrated when I see people flush their lives down the toilet waiting for a new system which didn't come in 1914,1915,1925, 1975, 1995 and looks like it never will.
I get so frustrated when I ask seemingly well educated people questions like
What will the birds, who are cleaning the meat of the 6 billion dead bodies jehovah destroyed at harmageddon, going to eat when they are finished with all the dead humans?
I can see them looking at us as their next meal but the average JDub? Up goes the blinkers and the brain shuts down flashing "OVERLOAD"
How is a lion, who has been designed/evolved to eat meat, suddenly going to manage to eat straw with the lamb? His teeth and digestive system can't handle vegetable matter.
Instead of thinking about the problem I get oh well Jehovah will fix it. No need to use brain.
Enough already. I'll stick around and help anyone who needs help but they have to want help I'm not going to chase anyone.
Many are even too afraid to come to our gatherings in Sydney. My god what kind of men are these?
I cannot believe that grown men are affraid to choose for themselves with whom they associate.
Have they all had their goolies removed? I still got mine. Checking..... Yep still there all three of'em
Thank God (figure of speech) I discovered the truth about the truth after a few short years and not after flushing most of my life down the toilet. Thank god I was able to rescue my #2 wife at the same time. Thank God she was smart enough not to let a religion come between a man and his wife. That is the one good thing to come out of my Watchtower experience, I found a good woman and we are happily married.