Does Jesus being the "Son of God" mean that he is not God by nature ?

by hooberus 92 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  herk

  Richie,

  Jesus Christ is referred to as "Mighty God" in Isa 9:6 ("For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us... And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father..."). Jehovah God is referred to as "Mighty God" in Isa 10:20-21. How can this be if there is only ONE God? Jesus is also called the ?Eternal Father? in Isa 9:6. Since only God is eternal, that is, has no beginning and no end, how can this be if Christ is not God but was ?created? by God? If ?Mighty God? and ?Eternal Father? are only titles given to Christ, why would he be given any ?title? in scripture that did not accurately apply to him?

  The Trinity doctrine teaches that God the Father is one person and that God the Son is another person. You have combined both into one person by claiming that Jesus is the "Eternal Father" in the Trinity sense. Either he is the Son or he is the Father. He cannot be both.

  If you will dismiss the Trinity from your mind and accept what the Bible simply says, there is no such contradiction. There is only one Almighty God. He is the Father and God of Jesus Christ. He is our God and Father. Jesus is not the Almighty God. He is called "Mighty God." There is a difference. Moses was called God. David and other kings of Israel were called God. The judges of Israel were called God. Like Jesus, none of them were Almighty God. They were called "God" because they spoke for God and acted on his behalf. Thus the Scriptures give us the two definitions of "God" in this context. One definition applies only to Almighty God the Father. He alone is "the only true God." (John 17:3) But he calls others "God" because they speak and act for him as his agents and representatives.

  As for the expression "Eternal Father," the title was understood by the Jews to mean "the father of the coming (Messianic) age." The Greek Septuagint word for "eternal" in this case contains the concept "related to the future age," not to all eternity past and future. Jesus as Messiah will be the parent of the coming age of the kingdom of God on earth until "all things are subjected to him. Then the Son himself will be subjected to the one [God, the Father] who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:28) In the Jewish community, a human leader can be called father. Isaiah 22:21 states of a leader in Israel: "I will entrust him with your authority. And he will become a father to the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem."

  herk
• 

  herk

  Kenneson,

  You state that God "was not limited to its absolute sense as a personal name for the supreme Deity as we use it today." Then, what say ye of John 20:17?

  Your question is unclear. John 20:17 states: "Jesus said, 'Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

  "My God and your God" refers to God the Father. However, as I stated above, God "was not limited to its absolute sense" as we use it today. Please explain what you're asking about.

  herk
• 

  Kenneson

  Herk,

  It seems to me that you pick and choose when the word God is used in an absolute sense. Somehow it's only limited when Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God" but not so when Jesus uses the title in John 20:17.
• 

  herk

  Kenneson,

  It seems to me that you pick and choose when the word God is used in an absolute sense. Somehow it's only limited when Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God" but not so when Jesus uses the title in John 20:17.

  Your thinking baffles me. Thomas addressed Jesus as "my God" and Jesus spoke of his Father as "my God and your God." Just as Jesus was greater in relationship to Thomas, the Father is greater in relationship to Jesus. Put another way, "Christ is the head of man, and God is the head of Christ." (1 Corinthians 11:3)

  The Bible clearly teaches that others of God's agents besides Christ were called "God." The real "picking and choosing" goes on when Trinitarians claim "God" means Almighty God with respect to Christ but not Almighty God with reference to angels, Moses, David, the judges of Israel and others.

  Trinitarians also pick and choose by claiming that "God" in the New Testament sometimes means only the Father or only Christ but at other times means all three members of the Trinity.

  herk
• 

  Richie

  Herk,
  

  Mighty God is an expression solely reserved for the only true God, the Supreme Being. When you study the original language, it is exactly as indicated where this title "Mighty God' belongs to Almighty God!

  Isa 9:6: Jesus is referred to "Mighty God" (same transliteration from the original Hebrew meaning the only true God in Heaven)

  Isa 10:20-21: Jehovah is referred to "Mighty God" (same transliteration from the original Hebrew meaning the only true God in Heaven)

  If Jesus then is not Almighty God, then Jehovah God is not Almighty God either, but "just" Mighty God".

  Richie :*)
• 

  plmkrzy

  Only God can forgive sins

  Cool so this means I don't have to be forgiving since I can't forgive anyone of anything anyway.

  I'm still tired I think I'll go back to bed. I sure hope someone will raise me up later when I awake.
• 

  plmkrzy

  borrowed from ozzies post

  We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way, and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all." ? Isaiah 53:4-6 (NIV)
• 

  plmkrzy

  God is a Lord
• 

  plmkrzy

  Isa 9:6: Jesus is referred to "Mighty God"

  RIchie you are nitpicking about words and what they mean and expect those words to carry the exact same meaning throughout an entire history and it ain't gonna work unless you like being confused and satisfied with that.

  IF you believe in God and Jesus then why don't you ask THEM?

  I those days a lot of things were referred to as "Mighty God"

  One important thing you forget to do is take into consideration WHO is speaking those words. Does God call Jesus Almighty God? Show me a scripture where the God of Abraham speaks to Jesus and calls Jesus Almighty God.
• 

  Richie

  Just check my earlier threads and you will find the answer if you really search for them.

  Every true Christian would agree that we should follow the commands of God. In Mk 9:7, God the Father commands us to listen to Jesus. Do you follow this command and listen to Jesus? After all, Jesus died for your personal sins (1Jn 2:2, 1Pet 2:24). Jesus tells us to go directly to him (Mt 11:28-30), and the Father commanded us to listen to Jesus. Why? Because JESUS gives us everlasting life (Jn 10:28), and so that JESUS will enter our house and be with us and give us the right to sit on his throne (Rev 3:20- 21). Do you pray to Jesus as Paul and the early Christians did (1Cor 1:2)? Do you partake of the flesh of Christ as Jesus commanded (Jn 6:51)? If not, then are you following the command of the Father who said "Listen to him".

  Richie :*)