Daddy, why did we have to attack Iraq?

by Larry 109 Replies latest social current

• 

  blacksheep

  Conservative columnist Andrew Sullivan, in the immediate aftermath of the attacks, blamed the Clinton administration. "

  Was this conservative columnist a member of the Bush Administration? Because that's what I expressly referring to in my post. A columnist can write and believe anything he wants. He wasn't representing Bush.

  During his administration, Clinton offered legislation that would give the Treasury Secretary broad powers to ban foreign nations and banks from accessing American financial markets unless they cooperated with money-laundering investigations that would expose and terminate terrorist cash flows.

  Oh wow. Now there's a big major blow to terrorism!! And, ironically, Clinton wasn't able to push it through. Now, in the Bush admin., there are many such precautions that have been put into place to stop money laundering. I know, I'm in the finance industry. So, guess 'ol Clinton just wasn't strong enough on terror to get what needed to be done, done.

  There was Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell blaming the attacks on gays, feminists and the ACLU a couple of days after the horror. They claimed the attacks were God's justice being levied against America for tolerating such people. No one quite explained the glaring hole in this logic -

  The heck they didn't. There was a major bi-partisan hue and cry from everyone. Falwell was forced to apologize for his bizarre remarks. NO one, certainly not the Bush admin, was in any was affiliated with this wacko neantherthal..

  Really, you've got to do better than that.
• 

  blacksheep

  The problems we face today is our own making. Good paying manufacturing jobs are leaving the US for China and are being replaced with low-paying, service jobs. Is this Bush's fault? Is it Clinton's fault? Nope. It's my fault and your fault for shopping ay Wal-Mart and buying the cheapest shi* we can find. Instead of buying that American made lawnmower, we buy the lawnmower made in China.

  Sorry folks, times have changed. A "good job" is not an entitlement. We are not a union, socialist state. And why SHOULDN'T people by a product that costs less? Or is made better? We live in a capitalistic system, like it or no. We are constantly searching for ways to do things faster, better, smarter.
• 

  blacksheep

  Hey Czar, I'll thank you not to characterize me as someone who "really loved people who would kill and torture and threaten" or someone who "felt no obligation to defend the innocent."

  Let's see. This, from the person who characterized me as not giving a sh*t about human life?

  How does it feel, 6? Oh, wait, I'm gathering from you comments after this statement that it doesn't feel good...
• 

  Realist

  blacksheep,

  I am sorry that you have such a narrow view of the world. You obviously assume that no one is good. No one in power is there because they believe in the principles of democracy: they are there to simply exploit people and make money.

  principles of democracy? LOL what reason is that? explain that please!

  to be precise i don't assume people in politics are particularly evil (what is evil anyway)...but people in general do what is best for them. and so do politicians. and fact is that in most cases the thoughest cookies make it to the top not the ones who worry about huring other people. politicians don't do bad things intentionally because they want to hurt people...but they simply do what is best for them and the people who pay them (the industry etc.).

  Oh, really? GWB KNEW that 19 highjackers would board 3 particular flights, kill the pilots, man the planes, and fly them into the world trade center, the pentagon, and possibly the White House? What revelations do YOU have that no one else does?

  as perhaps even you know by now GWB was informed that terrorist want to hijack planes and use them as weapons. if doubleU would care so much about you guys than why didn't he do something?

  This is the most assinine, hateful, and igornant accusation I have heard yet. You actually believe that GWB knew that 9/11 was about to occur, but did nothing so that he could attack Iraq? A year later?

  of course the president of the holy US of A would never do something like this! LOL

  i hope the poor guy is gonna get over this verbal attack (otherwise he can shoot himself...would save the world a lot of trouble).

  obviously clueless about what's going on. And for someone to suggest that are president knowingly and willingly allowed the 9/11 to happen, you are simply deranged.

  sure because doubleU stands for good and the others stand of evil.

  The US fortunetly, does not breed Nazis and Hitlers...unlike Europe. And middle eastern countries.

  of course not! the US of A is the best country in the world whose politicians have only the most pure motives! get a grip woman!
• 

  roybatty

  Sorry folks, times have changed. A "good job" is not an entitlement. We are not a union, socialist state. And why SHOULDN'T people by a product that costs less? Or is made better? We live in a capitalistic system, like it or no. We are constantly searching for ways to do things faster, better, smarter.

  Who's saying a god paying job is an entitlement? Certainly not I. All I'm saying is that people are quick to point the finger at politians, when in fact the fault is our own. How is Wal-Mart able to sell a lawn mower for only $100.00? Cheap Chinese labor. Think it doesn't effect you? Think again. Your neighbors who were working at the lawn mower plant that just closed up and now have to work for minimum wage at McDonalds or Wal-Mart now can't afford to by the car you're selling at the local dealership. Those same people can't afford to eat at the resturant you own. Those same people can't afford to go to the doctor's office you work at or buy the insurance you sell. See my point? I'm all for international trade but there are two major problems. One, how can I as a business owner compete with my Chinese counterpart who pays his workers ten cents a day, doesn't have to worry about health insurance, OSHA regulations, FICA, etc,etc? And two, how can I compete when my own government actaully encourages corporations like Motorola and GE to build plants in China?

  If you want to buy the $35.00 dvd player there is a price to pay. Hell, most people don't realize that we're at war with China and Wal-Mart is one of their biggest allies.
• 

  blacksheep

  but people in general do what is best for them. and so do politicians. and fact is that in most cases the thoughest cookies make it to the top not the ones who worry about huring other people. politicians don't do bad things intentionally because they want to hurt people...but they simply do what is best for them and the people who pay them (the industry etc.).

  Sorry you have such a jaded view of the world. You cannot seem to fathom that great leaders do what they do for the good of the country.

  It is very telling that you think everyone is out for themselves. Don't project your skewed view of reality and values onto others.
• 

  blacksheep

  All I'm saying is that people are quick to point the finger at politians, when in fact the fault is our own. How is Wal-Mart able to sell a lawn mower for only $100.00? Cheap Chinese labor. Think it doesn't effect you? Think again.

  I understand what you are saying. But we live in a FREE market. We are the greatest economy in the world. Why? Because in part we are flexible. We figure out how to do things better and faster. We are highly creative and the most customer focused nation in the world. Just because jobs are being outsourced to other nations should not be a reason to feel we are somehow threatened. We are a global economy. People who don't have the flexibility to move onto other endeavors from what they've ALWAYS done, yes, will likely suffer. They'll have to take lower paying jobs. And curse the government. But the ones who'll ultimately succeed are those who figure out what skills/abilities they can exploit in themselves. Maybe in a differenet job. But, life changes.
• 

  Realist

  blacksheep,

  as i said there are a handful of honest people who are actually interested in doing good for the population who get to the top. but you can count the number of those on one hand.

  But the ones who'll ultimately succeed are those who figure out what skills/abilities they can exploit in themselves. Maybe in a differenet job. But, life changes.

  with this you underline exactly what i am saying. survival of the fittest!
• 

  czarofmischief

  Hey Czar, I'll thank you not to characterize me as someone who "really loved people who would kill and torture and threaten" or someone who "felt no obligation to defend the innocent." you pissant fuckwit.

  Hey, ShitsOfTripe!

  I'll characterize you as I see fit, you blundering sack of leftist underhanded revolutionary propoganda - you foul people would defend Stalin and call FDR a "fascist". Your rhetoric is only "anti-war" as long as it isn't the good ol' USSR storming into Hungary. Your tune hasn't changed for almost 100 years. Now take down those huge posters of Ho Chi Min and Pol Pot from your bedroom wall and wrap yourself in the Hammer and Sickle and set yourself ablaze as a warning to us all. Your intolerant stupidity knows no bounds, save only when it soothes your nutsac to assault the bastion of freedom with the same tired "corporate elite class" nonsense that has been your refrain since the manifesto. You would empower the insane criminal class and deprive everyone else of their basic right to defend themselves. You would rewrite history to make the Black Panthers the oppressed heroes and would ignore the brutal murders they undertook in the name of their own racist agenda.

  I know a skunk by its stripe and its stench, and I know a filthy Red when I see the anti-American anti-democratic rhetoric.

  CZAR
• 

  roybatty

  I understand what you are saying. But we live in a FREE market. We are the greatest economy in the world. Why? Because in part we are flexible. We figure out how to do things better and faster. We are highly creative and the most customer focused nation in the world. Just because jobs are being outsourced to other nations should not be a reason to feel we are somehow threatened. We are a global economy. People who don't have the flexibility to move onto other endeavors from what they've ALWAYS done, yes, will likely suffer. They'll have to take lower paying jobs. And curse the government. But the ones who'll ultimately succeed are those who figure out what skills/abilities they can exploit in themselves. Maybe in a differenet job. But, life changes.

  Blacksheep, I think you're missing my point. I'm all for a free market system, and survival of the fittest. However, what I'm talking about is a level field. Let me give you an example. I own a small engineering & manufacturing company. Nothing special, it's a 10 man company. Customers like Gerber Baby Products, HON furniture and Caterpiller come to me when they have a new product they need designed and manufactured. My competition is China. As I said before, China has a huge advantage with cheaper labor, no OSHA or EPA standards to meet, no 401k or ESOP, etc. I can deal with these things. However, another huge advantage they have is a Chinese government that buys equipment for them. Again, I can deal with that. But what I can't handle is when my government gives money to companies to US companies to set up shop overseas. For example, a company named Nypro (a huge engineering and manufacturing company) just received a one million grant to build a tooling company in Russia. Companies like GE and Motorola receive assistance from federal agencies to set up manufacturing companies in China. So while I'm here with "peanuts" for tax breaks to buy new equipment or hire more people, my own government helps US companies ship jobs overseas. Why do companies do this? Because Wal-Mart literally sqweezes them for every penny. When I worked as a project engineer for Plano Molding (the tackle box people) our biggest customer was Wal-Mart. What Wal-Mart now does is take the best selling items they use to buy from Plano, Rubbermaid, Newell, etc., goes to China and has them make it for them. Does this fit in the realm for "free enterprise"? Sure does. But at some point there is also a sense of social resposibilty.