by blondie 23 Replies latest watchtower bible
Thank you Blondie!!!
Much of your hard work and research will be used by husband to help a very dear friend.
This person is a prominent elder in our neck of the woods, but he felt they were laying it on a bit thick in this article. So he wants
to discuss it with my husband. Maybe we can all the count time eh? Anyway I think you should. Say 8 hrs? and 1 rv.
yesidid
(Pictures page 10: Once again the WTS takes liberties with history. There are 2 men at a table facing a group people, young and old. The audience have scrolls in their laps, scrolls on the table and in a basket next to the table. Each row of seats is elevated like bleachers. Is this a home? Would each one have had access to any scrolls. People are raising their hands to comment???? Are the children in the audience of the anointed? If they had been baptized at 6 as we see in the WTS today? Second picture: Two men talking to another man at the door. What proof is there that Christians went door to door? Could women have done so culturally? How many become JWs through the door to door work? A CO asked people to raise their hand and it was less than ¼. The rest learned through relatives, neighbors, friends, workmates, informally.
"Taking liberties" is being too polite! It's an outright distortion, otherwise termed a lie!
You're quite right in highlighting this trickery for there is no indication that the early gatherings of christians in private homes were any more than informal gatherings. The picture's effect on the R&F is intended to be subliminal, reinforcing what they're told about "the meetings". I wonder where the gifts of the Spirit were being demonstrated?
As for "going house to house", Ray Franz has eloquently demonstrated the error of the WTS teaching on this (See COC and ISOCF), but how right you are in asking whether women would culturally have been "allowed" to go alone from house to house.
In short, Lies, lies, lies!
Ozzie
and put some excerpts into a german board
Very interesting, mineral. I was born in Germany and still retain some reading ability. Reading this on the DB was a challenge but not impossible.
Different countries, same conclusions.
Welcome grows1,
Most of the time when I read them I am left "thirsty" for more. You have no idea how helpful these articles are to those of us who can't "read between the lines".
Thanks for the encouragement. This topic had so much info it was hard to pare it down. I never bought into the FDS explanation. I always wondered where the "slave" was between 100 and 1879 AD. That?s why I know so many WTS statements/evasions. When I discovered how many "false" doctrines the WTS used after 1919, it pushed me closer to exiting.
Maverick
, how colorful.The WTS has rewritten the History of the World to fix their their own place in it. They are the center of this fiction!
Remember, just because the WTS says something does not make it so!
Yes, they are the WESAYSO Company.
Jgnat,
thanks for linking Leolaia?s research.By comparison, I very much enjoyed Leolaia?s thorough study,
"Who is the Faithful and Wise Servant"?
I try to stick to examining the fallacies of direct statements of the WTS with other statements it has made. This could have been a lot longer if I made an independent scriptural examination.
have provided examples of great Christians through history, asking, "Would they be part of the FDS?" I have yet to receive a satisfactory answer from a Jehovah?s Witness. Of course, they cannot answer directly, first of all because they have not studied the history of the Christian church outside of the magazines, and secondly, because they cannot fully acknowledge the accomplishments of these noble people, since these peoples? doctrine would necessarily be "inferior" to theirs. Ironic, isn?t it, that even their own roots would prove "inferior" according to current light?
Actually, the JWs have not really studied the history of their own religion. The WTS has provided limited info in a 1959 publication, a 1975 yearbook and finally the 1993 Proclaimers book partly to counteract the info on the internet. Several posters here said their eyes were opened to the lies of the WTS just by reading the Proclaimers book. Active/inactive JWs might find this site interesting.
http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/jv.htm
http://www.cftf.com/booklets/proclaimers/
Also, it always disturbed me how the WTS downgraded sacrifices other people made to help people in the name of God, "not according to accurate knowledge." We see from my review how "accurate" the knowledge of the WTS is.
Min
, it is amazing that we both bought into it for so long. I wonder how many other JWs are still dazzled by the **** crap.This subject tends to disturb me the most. It is the cornerstone of the religion yet it is utterly ridiculous.
OHD,
The Society does not want to acknowledge too many anointed Christians prior to Russell because then it would be clear that the number of 144,000 was filled up long
before the 20th century
Good point, in fact the WTS has a Question from Readers that tries to defuse this.
w52
1/15 p. 62 Questions from ReadersAccording
to the article "Hated for His Name" in the September 1, 1951, Watchtower, hundreds of thousands of Christians died in the "ten persecutions" starting in Nero?s time, 144,000 dying in Egypt alone during one of the persecutions. How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ?s body, and which position was the only one open to Christians during those centuries??J.A., Dominican Republic.The article did not class with any finality the individuals that died during these persecutions, but spoke of the results in a general way. Note that a key qualification was made in the case referred to in the question: "In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works." The victims are identified as "professed Christians", not Christians in fact. Many of those persons might have been caught in the wave of persecution, but may never have actually preached the truth or followed in Jesus? footsteps, being only professed Christians. They knew the world they lived in was rotten and they were listening to the message of the Christians and willing to die for it even though not in line for the high calling in Christ Jesus. Many professed Christians today might be willing to die for their faith, but still not be Jesus? footstep followers and meeting the Scriptural requirements for such.
Hi Galaxy 7,
o how wold they have dated that in Jesus time?
I don?t know the whole story, but I found this,
Except for the sabbath, Jews simply number their week days.
Years are counted since the creation of the world, which is assumed to have taken place in 3761 B.C.E. In that year, AM 1 started (AM = Anno Mundi = year of the world).
In the year C.E. 1998 we have witnessed the start of Jewish year AM 5759.
But this year counting by the Jews did not start until after Jesus? time. Can a scholar out there help us out with how years were counted and designated?
Hi rocketman, you?ve been scarce. Glad to see you here.
The vast majority of the anointed since then have had nothing to do with "feeding" God's household.
That is why it is so confusing for the rank and file. The few anointed they have known have no contact or part in providing the "food." In fact, more non-anointed have input today than anointed. Even if you ask an anointed brother in your congregation if the WTS has contacted him about a point or if he has written to the WTS with a point, he will deny having any original ideas. Anointed with original ideas or direct contact with God are viewed with suspicion by the elders and the WTS.
Wow, yesidid,
Much of your hard work and research will be used by husband to help a very dear friend.
This person is a prominent elder in our neck of the woods, but he felt they were laying it on a bit thick in this article
I hope it helps. What really made the point for me were all the "false" teachings the WTS still retained long after 1919. I didn?t add
Great tribulation started in 1914 and ended in 1918 to start up again at a future date (corrected 1970)
1975 was an appropriate time for the GT to come (corrected 1980 sort of)
There should be several elders making up a body in each congregation (corrected in 1932 then back to original in 1973)
Organ transplants (ok before 1967, 1967-1980 Dfing, 1980 ok)
Sodom and Gomorrah resurrected? (yes-no-yes-no-yes-no)
Hi ozziepost,
As for "going house to house", Ray Franz has eloquently demonstrated the error of the WTS teaching on this (See COC and ISOCF), but how right you are in asking whether women would culturally have been "allowed" to go alone from house to house.
In short, Lies, lies, lies!
The WTS conditions the rank and file. Most are so ignorant of history, even their own.
Blondie
Oh, yes, Blondie - to do a dissection of an article like this, one has to keep focus. I linked Leoalia's thread because it is a great example of what a thorough bible study is. By comparison, WT articles read like candy fluff. I get full quickly, but there is no substance.
Wow, what a great review. Long? Hmmm.........no. Just a piece by piece dismantling of the ridiculously thin claim to Godhood, which is really what the WT is claiming here; they never say we are God, but they do lay claim time and again to speaking for God; in Jesus' day that was good enough for stoning.
I will come back to this review but here are a few things I enjoyed:
5 Well, might the term "faithful and discreet slave" apply in a general sense to each individual Christian? It is true that all Christians must be faithful and discreet; however, Jesus clearly had something more in mind when he spoke of "the faithful and discreet slave." How do we know that? Because he said that the "master on arriving" would appoint the slave "over all his belongings." How could each individual Christian be placed over everything?over "all" of the Lord?s belongings? Impossible!Yet they had felt that Charles Taze Russell, one individual, could be placed over everything.
w95
5/15 p. 16 Flashes of Light?Great and Small (Part 1)If all the anointed as a group, no matter where on earth they live, are members of the slave class
, who are the "domestics"? They are the same anointed ones but considered from a different viewpoint?as individuals. Yes, as individuals they would be of the "slave" or they would be "domestics," depending on whether they were dispensing spiritual food or partaking of it.
Look at how this breaks into nonsense quite quickly: NO ONE christian could be over this task; they ALL are as a class. But wait, not all: this is later qualified to point to those who have made it up the chain to bethel and into the driver's seat in the writing department. Of course, no discussion here of how the HEAD over the slave is selected; vote, committee, what? HMM? So, they can't do it as individuals, only as a group. But they don't really do it as a group, since not all are involved in doing it, don't get invited into the process, etc. Saying that they do it as a group is UNTRUE. The facts show that a SMALL, VERY SMALL number of a small numbered group are "supplying food at the proper time."
(What does that really mean, supplying food? Sure it means some articles about doctrine, but from my perspective it is more about behavior control than anything else. Elders spend more time in JC committees than shepherding the flock, from my experience. So let's adjust it to say: "deciding and enforcing behavior control on the group", instead of supplying food at the proper time.
Broken down for my simple mind, it becomes: a tiny percentage of a very small group is deciding and enforcing behavior control on the rest of the group. This is not Christianity as Jesus' envisioned; it is just a modern day repetition of the Jewish belief system.)
Who are they helping? Themselves of course; this is one of those orwellian moments when both players in the parable ARE THE SAME PEOPLE. What?? OH, here it is explained: Yes, as individuals they would be of the "slave" or they would be "domestics," depending on whether they were dispensing spiritual food or partaking of it.
Ahem, ok; so the anointed are the slave; but not all are the slave. All are the domestics, evidently. But not all are the slave.
The article for me clarified the one overriding, unfailing doctrine that the WT has NEVER wavered on: WE SPEAK FOR GOD. Don't forget it.
All other doctrine has been altered, spun, changed, dropped, dismantled or flipped over.
It took me three hours to read all this stuff.Some of the other sites I have read before.There is no doubt in my mind that individuals are either faithful or unfaithful when it comes down to whether one serves Christ or not.The key foundation to this serving is LOVE.
Blondie,great job,it was not long enough! If this was a trial in court, it would still be going on, the end result would be that the small group of men in Bklyn are not who they claim to be.
So many quotes,so much evidence, no wonder Jesus said,"Out of your own mouths, you have condemned yourselves,or, by your words you will be condemned".
Blueblades
According to the WTS, Jesus came to inspect the slave in 1919, but what were they teaching? How were they any different that the Christian religions they said Jesus rejected?
more along the lines of calculation, may i ask how they got to 1919? do they even have any incorrect "calculations" to get from 1914 to 1919? at least 1914 is backed up by incorrect interpretations and calculations. i believe that the reason why they said Jesus picked the WTS in 1919 was because the WTS Governing Body was released out of prison to continue their charade of bullshit. lets not forget why they were IN prison in the first place. (quick reminder of why, Rutherford released "the finished mystery" that said somethign about dodging the draft of WWI when the WTS didn't have a draft dodging doctrine). So, whats the basis on selecting 1919? because as stated above, their teachings were a bold face lie, and if you ever told a modern JW the teachings of old without telling them that they were teachigns of the WTS, they would swear that you have been worshipping satan....... so.....
Excellent, Blondie, as usual. And on top of all of this, there's the dilemma of rationalizing their 1919 ``anointing" or ``passing of the test" to their contrasting dogma that, at about that very time in their history, they were pictured by the Two Witnesses in Sackcloth (Revelation 11) and that the remnant ``had unclean skirts," were tainted by vestiges of Babylonish doctrine and had to undergo a period of spiritual inacticty as punishment!
What an indigestible mess! And to think we once took this stuff seriously. I often wonder about the reaction of hapless householders who take copies of such magazines from the dubbies at their door or on the street corner, and actually attempt to read and understand this drivel.
Jgnat,
I linked Leoalia's thread because it is a great example of what a thorough bible study is. By comparison, WT articles read like candy fluff. I get full quickly, but there is no substance.
I get vomitous. But I have a bucket by my computer.
Pistoff,
Look at how this breaks into nonsense quite quickly: NO ONE christian could be over this task; they ALL are as a class. But wait, not all: this is later qualified to point to those who have made it up the chain to bethel and into the driver's seat in the writing department. Of course, no discussion here of how the HEAD over the slave is selected; vote, committee, what? HMM? So, they can't do it as individuals, only as a group. But they don't really do it as a group, since not all are involved in doing it, don't get invited into the process, etc. Saying that they do it as a group is UNTRUE. The facts show that a SMALL, VERY SMALL number of a small numbered group are "supplying food at the proper time."
Good paragraph.
Yes, we speak for God, don?t forget it. I think some are forgetting it. As I said my husband says people vote with their pocket book and with their feet. Less donations, mostly for the local congregation, and fewer attending. Just going enough to stay off the elder radar.
Blueblades,
So many quotes,so much evidence, no wonder Jesus said,"Out of your own mouths, you have condemned yourselves,or, by your words you will be condemned".
I say something similar, hang them with their own words. I was imitating Christ and didn?t realize it.
My dear dustyb,
more along the lines of calculation, may i ask how they got to 1919?
I think I can work that into next week?s review. It was to do with the 2 witnesses in Revelation being dead for 3 ½ years. I will try to pare it down.
Room 215
there's the dilemma of rationalizing their 1919 ``anointing" or ``passing of the test" to their contrasting dogma that, at about that very time in their history, they were pictured by the Two Witnesses in Sackcloth (Revelation 11) and that the remnant ``had unclean skirts," were tainted by vestiges of Babylonish doctrine and had to undergo a period of spiritual inacticty as punishment!
Yes, I was amazed some years ago when I did a chart of changes in doctrine over the years. I did not know that the cross was used on the WT until 1936, a full 17 years after 1919.
Blondie
blondie:
Yes, I was amazed some years ago when I did a chart of changes in doctrine over the years. I did not know that the cross was used on the WT until 1936, a full 17 years after 1919.
Wow. More and more I see the 1984 aspect of claiming to be the channel. We believe nothing of what Russel did, and Rutherford; but they knew enough to merit being selected by Jah??
Yikes.
