I've come to appreciate that "freeness of speech" is something one could have only if they were studying with Witnesses. Once you became a Witness, it was all over! No more questions, discussions or contrary opinions. Did you ever try to give an opinion as a JW that went contrary to the majority?
Were You Able To "Express Freeness of Speech" While You Were A JW?
by minimus 20 Replies latest jw friends
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gitasatsangha
Yes. It didn't go over well.
Did you?
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MicStroz
" I cannot deny that I have been and am still influenced by the
noble principles aimed at outsiders advocated in the organization's
literature. I relied wholeheartedly on those principles and believed
that any matter would be rightly considered by the organization. It is
a painful blow to find out at the end that they are just part of a monologue,
like other kinds of propaganda, that seek no answer at all but only its own
echo." By Augusto Oliveira Ex-Special Pioneer Brazil
I agree!
P.S. There is no free speech.
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blondie
Is that a Slesak from Land of the Lost, git?
I got away with a lot because I backed it up with scriptures. I was baaaaad.
Blondie
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OHappyDay
Sure, there is freeness of speech --
As long as you don't mind being called bad associations, spiritually weak, disgruntled, or a murmurer.
Or most foul of all, an independent thinker.
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AlanF
Rarely. Long-time JWs know very well that certain boundaries to speech exist that cannot be crossed without dire consequences. They also know that the boundaries are a bit fuzzy and vary from JW to JW, and even with the person approaching the boundaries.
For example, until about 1992 JWs knew perfectly well not to publicly say, "The Society is wrong about its policy to condemn college attendance." I knew from personal experience that the reaction of most JWs was, "How dare you question Jehovah's arrangement!" But when I was in college, about 1980, I had the opportunity to question GB member Albert Schroeder about the policy. I told him that I was feeling pretty bad about the Society's continually condemning people like me, who simply wanted to get a good education to support their families. He was sympathetic, and actually told me not to pay too much attention to what the literature said, but to do what I felt was right. After all, he himself had gone to engineering school, but had quit around 1932 to go to Bethel. But I have no doubt that some other GB members, such as Ted Jaracz, would have been outright condematory toward me. After all, they're the cretins who cause the condemnations to be written in WTS literature in the first place. And of course, if I had told Schroeder that I think his comments, or the Society's stance given his comments, were hypocritical, I almost certainly would have been called up before a judicial committee on any number of charges related to "apostasy". After all, they can't afford to let an intelligent, mouthy critic run around.
AlanF
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AGuest
(And peace to you!)
The very PURPOSE of the Bible Studies is to REMOVE your "freeness of speech". The very PURPOSE of Watchtower studies is to REMOVE your "freeness of speech."
You are allowed, as a Bible Study, to ask questions, yes... as you are being PROGRAMMED to lose those questions.
Let me ask you: if you answered the baptism questions differently from what's in the "Organization" book... can you GET baptized? I'll answer that one: no. Why? Because it is not until you believe as THEY do... fully and completely (or at least, SAY you do)... that such is permitted. That is the PURPOSE of all the questions: to remove what you believe... or question as your belief... and reprogram you.
The very PURPOSE of the WTBTS... is to PROMSE you freedom... while all the while they BIND you... and REMOVE your freedom. Of speech... and of everything else.
That is the very REASON that my Lord said:
"You will know the TRUTH... and the TRUTH... will set you free! Therefore, if the SON sets you free... you are TRULY free."
Thus, I am free. Truly. I can say... what I wish... and disagree... with whomever I wish.
In that light, and given the title of your thread, I feel I point out to those here who demonstrate here the VERY SAME "mental inclination" as they had when they were IN the "organization": such is HYPOCRISY!
For to ridicule and malign the WTBTS for ridiculing anyone who doesn't believe as they do... see a matter as they do... always agree with them... always think like them... always state a matter as they would state it... always using "buzzwords" that they're familiar with... who has nothing really against them but doesn't want to be a PART of them... and then come here and do the EXACT SAME THING to folks who see things, state things, believe things, etc., DIFFERENT from them... is nothing more than pure hypocrisy.
Such ones cannot "see" it, however, because although they THINK they are "rich"... they, too, are "blind". Truly, they are NO different from the WTBTS who decries "christendom" for their "hypocrisy," while they themselves do the very same things as those. Many here... decry the WTBTS... while they themselves do the very same things... as those.
The WTBTS folks believe themselves to be "free"... yet their vocation is to "bind" others... to their way of thinking, speaking, believing, etc. IF, therefore, you believe that being ridiculed for what you now believe... or don't... what you now think... or don't... what is now acceptable to you... or is not... what guides YOUR faith... or does not... is WRONG... then I say to such ones:
"Hypocrite... remove the rafter."
Again, I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ, who values my "freedom"... of speech and anything else... as granted me by the Son of God, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH,
SJ
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undercover
Freeness of speech.
Seems like I remember that phrase being used by JWs in the sense that as long as we lived our lives as proper Christians(or in their case, JWs) without hidden sins or wrong thoughts then we had "freeness of speech" in that we can preach and teach without guilt. Elders and MSs had to be careful that they were living their lives in an examplary way so as to have "freeness of speech" from the pulpit, er, stage, er, platform.
Interesting that we were conditioned to think that as long as we towed the line, we had freeness of speech, but in actuality, we were not free. Not in speech, not in action, not in dress, not in anything. The WTS says, "obey and you're free" but what they really meant was, "obey, do as your told, believe what we tell. We'll let you think you're free, but we've really got you by the short hairs".
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minimus
NOTHING is absolute regarding JW "freeness of speech". I probably spoke up more as an elder and almost always presented an argument NOT to be overly critical vs. the bros. and sisters. But I knew my boundaries. But I have disagreed with the entire BOE as well as CO at different times. That's why I'm here, I guess.
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kls
Freeness of speech? a jw? I stuck my foot in my mouth so often and was corrected constantly. I once said talking to someone " Holy cow" i was told Jehovahs people don't talk that way, what way? My kid sneezed i said," bless you" ,Jehovahs people don't talk that way, what way? This is just every day talk i thought. Then i really stuck my foot in my mouth when i asked why there are no jw schools, i said there are so many restrictions on jw children why not have school's for these kids to make going to school for these kids easier, well an elder stepped up and got right in my face and was not yelling but talking very loud so all could hear , and man he went off on me saying" jehovahs children learn right from wrong ,it makes them stronger on what to do and not do, we only have donations to print jehovahs word ,we are not a money making church we cannot afford to pay for schools". OMG everyone at the meeting was staring at me like i was satan himself in the flesh. After that i had to watch every word i said so as not to offend anyone.