Ariel on WOL sees the truth. A love story.

by SixofNine 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • hippikon
    hippikon

    SixofNine

    cognitive dissonance. Read up on it

    I did just that – fascinating

    http://www.propaganda101.com/cognitiv.htm

    In one of the earliest experimental test of the theory of cognitive dissonance, Festinger and J. Meririll Carlsmith (1959) had subjects perform a very dull and boring task: the subjects had to place a large number of spools on pegs on a board, turn each spool a quarter turn, take the spool off the pegs and then put them back on. As you can imagine, subject's attitudes toward this task were highly negative. The subjects were then induced to tell a female "subject," who was actually an accomplice of the experimenter, that this boring task he would be performing was really interesting and enjoyable. Some of the subjects were offered $20 to tell this falsehood; others were offered only $1. Almost all of the subjects agreed to walk into the waiting room and persuade the subject accomplice that the boring experiment would be fun.
    Obviously , there is a discrepancy here between attitudes and behavior. Although the task was boring,subjects tried to convince another person it was fun. Why? To the subjects who received $20, the reason was clear; the wanted the money. The larger payment provided an important external justification consistent with the conterattitudinal behavior. There was no dissonance, and the subjects experienced no need to change their attitudes. But for the subjects who received only $1, there was much less external justification and more dissonance. How could subjects reduce the dissonance? They could do so by changing their attitude toward the task. This is exactly what happened. When the subjects were asked to evaluate the experiment, the subjects who were paid only $1 rated the tedious task as more fun and enjoyable than did either the subjects who were paid $20 to lie or the subjects in a control group who were not required to lie about the task. Since the external justification --the $1 payment--was too low to justify the counter attitudinal behavior, the subjects simply changed their attitudes to make them consistent with behavior.

    The mode 2 thinker refutes emotionally, not logically. This is why one cannot debate or discuss logic and facts with mode 2 thinkers. Any reasoned discussion or debate is met with emotional discussion or debate. It is like trying to debate with a child...they simply don't hear you.
    How can one counter emotional arguments? Answer: It is not possible. Mode 2 thinkers cannot be persuaded rationally...i.e. with facts and logic that contradict their worldview. Only rational individuals can be persuaded with contradictory facts and logic.

    .

    Really, this is a psychological and not ideological phenomenon. It is a mass neurosis of sorts. When millions of people cling to worldviews which have failed for the last 80 years, something is wrong.

    http://www.proliberty.com/observer/19990505.htm

    If, for instance, we share the same attitudes with people we trust and respect, all is well and balanced. If we disagree with people we trust and respect we become concerned because the disagreement leaves us in a state of “nonbalance.”
    Conversely, if we disagree with the position of somebody that we do not like, we are able to maintain balance and we may feel nonbalanced if we agree with the position of a person whom we do not like.
    People who intend to control our behavior understand that we strive to be balanced.

    , if you present people with a concept that contains properties that are in conflict with one another, in order to restore balance, people have a tendency ignore the discrepency--sweep it under the rug.
  • hippikon
    hippikon

    Simon

    Let's mount a covert operation to get an operative in there as a mod eh?

    And what would we do when we get there? But a good idea. If nothing else the prospect of it will make them paranoid. We should all try to infiltrate.

  • hippikon
    hippikon

    Hehehe

    BEWARE OF APOSTATES!!!

    Some make very strange QUESTIONS. Such questions have to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses organizational structure, their modern understanding of some details in the Bible, their Christian life style etc. There are reasons to believe that many of these questions are not innocent. Their purpose is to make suspicious about the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. As a result we may lose faith for Bible doctrines or even for Bible itself!

    Some others give ANSWERS to these questions, which are dangerous too! They answer in a way giving the impression that Jehovah’s Witnesses are fanatic or that they are blind followers of human beings. Such answers do not prove anything but only pretend to display loyalty to Jehovah’s organization. It is like saying: “We are the true Christians, so you have to do everything we say”. Such answers do not help anyone. Jesus rarely said, “I am the Christ”. Instead, he said: ‘Observe my works and you will understand who I am’. (compare Matthew 11:2-6) In the same way the Faithful and Discreet Slave gives proves for what he says. The fanatic way of answering makes us believe that apostates give the stupid answers too.

    For the ones questioning:

    Know that the major doctrines that discriminate Jehovah’s Witnesses from all the other religions and denominations are the SAME from Russell’s life! Such doctrines have to do with subjects like: Trinity, immortality of the soul, the hellfire, God’s purpose for earth, Jehovah’s name, the ransom, etc. It is true that Jehovah’s Witnesses have changed their views for prophetic topics, the structure of the their worldwide Congregation or subjects about Christian conduct. But remember that prophecies couldn’t be understandable completely before the time of their fulfillment. (Daniel 12:4) Further more, their organizational structure becomes better and better approaching the model of the 1st century Congregation. The same occurs for our conduct too. As time passes we are even stricter to Bible’s principles. On the contrary, the Churches of Christendom become dirtier because of the world. That was told in advance also: “Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand.” We know that we belong in the true religion because we make progress. —Daniel 12:10.

    For the ones answering:

    Do not give “de facto” answers! We have become Jehovah’s Witnesses because we made personal Bible research and fount satisfying answers. (Matthew 28:19, 20) We like learning. Our faith is a result of proves. (Hebrew 11:1) That is why we do not accept the baptism of babies. Hence, when you say something try to seem logical, not fanatic. Give evidence. So brothers, “Let your utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned with salt, so as to know how you ought to give an answer to each one,” “handling the word of the truth aright.” — Colossians 4:6· 2 Timothy 2:15.

    I have to say that this community is generally in good condition. On the contrary, some other communities are houses of apostates and others who hate JWs. May this community continue to be clean.

    Little do they know

  • teejay
    teejay

    Hello, Brother 6of9

    During the Memorial Day weekend, I went back home to spend
    time with the family and see old friends. My uncle, who's an
    elder, seemed to want some advice, the kind that you normally
    would search out another elder, even though he knows that I
    have been inactive for a long time. (it seems he's aware that
    his fellow elders are a bunch of idiots. I don't know all of
    them, but I'd have to say that those I do know are... idiots,
    that is.)

    During the conversation, he told me about another situation: a
    couple who had been married for thirty years were separated.
    I'll call them Ronald and Barbara. Well, Barbara moved back in
    with her aged parents in her hometown.

    Evenutally Barbara got a divorce without "scriptural grounds"
    and married another brother. Why she wasn't disfellowshipped
    was a mystery for many, but maybe the fact that her father has
    been a well known elder for forty years has something to do
    with it. Still, the elders in Ronald's congregation has told
    him he is not free to marry.

    The whole thing left me feeling very incensed, since I know Ronald
    very well. He's a very kind hearted man, and a favorite of many. The
    entire incident brought home the idiocy of the Watchtower mindset.
    How a man close to 50 years old can allow other men to tell him
    when he can and can't get married, even under such ridiculous
    circumstances, then you know something is waaay outta whack.

    peace,
    todd

  • outcast
    outcast

    Very sad.

  • WildHorses
    WildHorses

    Outcast, I just sent it.. I would delete your last reply to this post just in case she decides to check out this place.

    Lilacs

  • esther
    esther

    Teejay, you said

    Evenutally Barbara got a divorce "scriptural grounds" and married another brother.

    Later on you added

    Still, the elders in Ronald's congregation has told him he is not free to marry.

    He is free to remarry, the fact that the wife remarried without scriptural grounds means that she has committed adultery.

    This is from the Watchtower 1982, September 1st, P31 questions from readers

    Consider next the situation of when one mate, for example the husband, takes matters farther than a separation and gets a divorce. A faithful Christian wife who later learned that (before or after divorcing her) he had been morally unfaithful could remarry, considering her former marriage ended both legally and in the eyes of Jehovah God. On the other hand, if there was a legal divorce but no adultery, the divorce would not of itself end the marriage in God's view, for the Bible shows that immorality by one's mate is the only valid basis for a divorce.-Matthew 19:6, 9
    That seems fairly clear to me.

    esther

  • teejay
    teejay

    That seems fairly clear to me.

    ahh, but therein lies the rub, esther. even without being privy to the
    wt mag you quoted, you, and i, and even my uncle see the logic of your
    conclusion. still: Ronald is not free. so says the Men of Wisdom and
    Direction at his Hall. would you like their phone number? have i already said
    that they are morons? what's really sad is that Ronald, for whatever reason,
    feels compelled to play along with their nonsensical game.

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