The resurrection of the flesh of Jesus Christ (page 3)

hooberus

OK Hooberus, use the scriptures to make your points and I'll answer with scripture. You can go first.

Before we begin, do you accept the Bible (I use the KJV) as authoritative scripture even over your prophets, or do the words of your prophets outweigh the Bible?

Likewise, do you believe that a person can understand what the Bible teaches by studying the Bible in context, or do you believe that if a persons interpretation of the Bible disagrees with your prophets that the persons interpretation is automatically wrong?

Deputy Dog

Hooberus

I will be surprised if he agrees to your terms, I've been down this road before with mormons. I don't want to speak for him but, other mormons I've spoken with, say things like "How do you know that verse is translated correctly?" or "Only our church (prophet) has the authority to interpret the bible"

They have there own faithful and discreet slave.

D Dog

Deputy Dog

Dan

Which is exactly my point. You can't find a scripture that says he does NOT have a body any more than you can find one that says he is a bird with feathers.

The burden is on you to show me from the bible, that, God the Father is a Man with a body!

You're right in that my understanding is not chained down to 1590 pages of scripture. No people in the Bible ever survived spiritually solely on ancient scripture, and I don't see any reason to start now; and if you'd like to test my understanding of the scriptures you are more than welcome.

Thanks, for admitting that the bible doesn't support your position.

D Dog

dan

Hooberus, I believe it was Christ that condemned the Scribes and Pharisees for putting scripture before prophets. The Sadducees, Samaritans, Herodians and Zealots also made that error. IF there is a living prophet on the earth, his word outweighs ancient scripture. That is biblical. I use the KJV; and although I know there to be errors, I will accept any scripture you produce from it as binding, as long as the interpretation is logical. I will, however, produce the Hebrew and Greek denotations where appilcable.

I believe the Spirit teaches us the truth. My church building has a room we use for a class called institute; and in front, in huge letters, there's a big sign that says, "FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF." If you have an idea that is different, pray to God and look for an assurance that you are right. We ask that no one blindly follow the prophet, but that everyone find out for themselves. I will consider your interpretations as thoroughly as I do the prophets', so don't worry about that.

Deputy dog, I have no burden of proof. You have not shown me a scripture, so I am not bound to show you one. The matter rests on who has the right to interpret and who doesn't; and I didn't say it didn't support it, I said the Bible did not confine me. The Bible is not comprehensive enough to form or run any church, so assumptions and inferences have to be made; or you just have to have a prophet. I prefer a prophet to a guessing game. You obviously prefer human reasoning to revelation. Provocative. The ball's in your court now.

I accept the terms, by the way.

hooberus

dan, can we agree that the teachings of those who claim to be prophets and apostles are to be judged by the previous scriptures:

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20

"The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail. For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed." Isaiah 8:15-16

"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:" Revelation 2:2

Therefore, if a prophet or apostle teaches doctrine contrary to the Bible (such as a wrong view of God), then the prophet is wrong. Basically we should judge the teachings of those who claim to be prophets and apostles by the scriptures (and reject those who teach contary to scriptures), rather than judge the scriptures by the teachings of those who claim to be prophets.

Once I had an LDS missionay tell me that if the Bible disagrees with them that the Bible is wrong, and not them. Therfore, I don't like to get into situations where a person after being shown clearly a biblical doctrine, simply retorts with a statement that the verses that I showed him were "not in the original", or "have been mistranslated", (the criteria for them being "not original" or "mistranslated" being that the biblical doctrine contradicts his or her leaders teachings).

If you can agree with this then we can discuss the nature of God.

Deputy Dog

Dan

Can we agree or not? I don't know of any verse in the bible that says that God has a body, do you? Yes or no. If you do please show it to us.

The Bible is not comprehensive enough to form or run any church

It works just fine at mine.

D Dog

dan

Hooberus, God has changed the rules in the past and He still has that right. For the most part revelation will not refute past revelation, but it does not hold true always. God said in Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill" but twelve chapters later He commands (through His prophet) "slay every man his brother, and every man his companion". In Leviticus certain women are ordered to be killed. You have to know if a prophet is a true prophet or not before you can whether to follow orders that contradict scripture. How can you tell? The Bible says that his fruits will testify of the actuality of his calling. There is no other criteria for measuring a prophet sanctioned in the Bible.

Interpretation of scripture is also another factor that enters into this equation. Arguments can be solidly made for and against almost any interpretation of scripture; nonetheless, I will not use a prophet as a trump card here. You are free to open discussion.

hooberus

Nature of God:

Is God the Father a man?

" God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" Numbers 23:19

"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent." 1 Samuel 15:29

"I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city." Hosea 11:9

Is God the Father a fleshly being?

"Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit." Isaiah 31:3a

gumby

I was wonderin what kind of body Jesus had when he spent some of that time he was dead"in the tomb for 3 days"......but at the same time "preaching to wicked spirits in hell"? Was it a fleshly one or spiritual one? Or.....did he really do that?

Gumby

dan

No. He has a body, if that's what you're getting at. My questions to you:

1) Are you "born of the Spirit", or are you aware of anyone that has been "born of the Spirit"?

2) Can Spirit have flesh?

The resurrection of the flesh of Jesus Christ

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