Oh for goodness' sakes, she makes a big deal about whether they are called "proclaimers" or "publishers." She keeps harping on "where's Jesus?" when the article did mention Jesus. I don't see anything wrong with articles reminding Witnesses of keeping their zeal for the work. Any organization would have reminders such as these every now and then.
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 5-2-04 WT Study (3-15-04)
by blondie 38 Replies latest watchtower bible
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blondie
Please this is not worth a disagreement.
While it is no "big deal" it is interesting. I feel it is no accident that the WTS uses a term like "proclaimers" rather than "publishers." Most non-JWs would understand the Christian aspect of proclalimers more than publishers, which sounds like JWs are book printers.
As to the aspect of Jesus, I have mentioned this point before in other articles, Jesus is mentioned but his role in a Christian's life is left out or minimized to the point of nonimportance. He is replaced by the organization in the lives of JWs, since they are the visible earthly contact with the true God.
God
Jesus
WTS
publisher/proclaimer
That is, the rank and file cannot get to Jesus or God except through the WTS/organization.
If you don't agree, fine, Cygnus. Let's not make it an argument.
Blondie (who'll be back later to acknowledge your comments)
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heathen
cygnus--- I think the big deal about this is they obviously have been reading the web since it is a popular opinion on this site that the WTBTS is just a publishing corporation that trains people to sell their publications, so now they feel they need to invent another term for the R&F that doesn't imply what has come under scrutiny by many in an attempt to quell the evil appostates relentless character assassination and criticism of the door to door work .
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Cygnus
Invent a new term? They've been using "proclaimers" for decades.
Jesus has no role or is unimportant for JWs? Maybe he was to you when you were a JW but I hear JWs talk about Jesus and being Christlike and imitating his example all the time.
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blondie
Well, Cygnus, I looked back at your post history. I see you tend the play the devil's advocate. No problem in having more than one viewpoint.
Sunnygal41,
Thanks for calling me witty. I don?t know if I feel witty, but may be I see some irony.
Cybersista,
Interesting reading once you learn to read between the lines. The Org definitely has an agenda
Rest assured that over 45 years of attending meetings has made me see some of the trends. I was told when I visited the writing area at Bethel, that every word is considered carefully.
Minimus,
They would feel better about themselves---that's for sure! If an elder also was a pioneer elder---whew!----now he'd REALLY feel special.......The WT. Society masterfully manipulates people
I have been reading the 4 Presidents book by Ed Gruss. It shows how the WTS has used the "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" philosophy. One was when they "suggested" that the territory be worked 4 times in 6 months; and the rank and file think working it once in 6 months is a terrible requirement.
JeffT
The Society's emphasis has always been on hours counted, not effectiveness. The people I see on the street holding up Watchtowers are getting their time in, indeed 10 hours a month of that will qualify them as elders, but they aren't going to be recruiting any new members.
Then there are the drive by return visits, just looking to see if they are home from the street, and driving by.
After 40 years in the door to door work, 15 of them as a regular pioneer, in several congregations, locations and cultures, I can say that most are lax in making their RVs, few prepare in advance with the householder in view, keep sparse RV records, and make them months after the first contact, starting the second contact with "Remember me?"
JWs know that their salvation is rooted in hours in field service not being effective. There was a time when a JW was required to be conducting one Bible study in order to be appointed as a regular pioneer. That had to drop that or the pioneers ranks would have been sparse.
Boa,
love still being able to 'benefit' in my 'attendance' at the weekly watchtower study
Well, I hope that down the road, something I say or what someone else says will inspire some special insight you can share with us.
OHD,
Your comment reminds me of the one last week about the scripture talking about "apostles, prophets, evangelizers, and teachers" being applied to the elders. This is the same scripture the WTS uses to prove that only elders should be teachers but then they turn around and say everyone should be evangelizers.
Willy,
it may be helpful to observe how the Congregation Book Study overseer (conductor) handles the coverage of each week?s lesson
This is laughable! There is rarely more than one conductor in a given congregation who can make this tripe interesting. When the folks sitting in the KH on Sunday hear this line read, will they smile to themselves, thinking of their own book study and the torturous endurance they must display each week? Or will they be too busy day dreaming?
Actually my husband did make the "tripe" somewhat interesting. His wife helped him. He always tried to highlight the scriptures and get people to answer using them rather than regurgitating the paragraph word for word. People liked being at his book study and several asked to be transferred into it.
El blanko,
How I managed to sit through the meetings years ago and lap it up is beyond me.
Maybe you justed "blanked out."
Maverick, my knight in shining armor,
promise you if you studied with a person for a year in any Bible and that person knew scripture backward and forward and you brought them to the Elders to get baptized the Elder would want to know WHAT WTS BOOK you studied out of? If you told them only a Bible, they would not let that person get baptized!
Actually, you will see in the quote above regarding the Knowledge book, the proclaimer/publisher was told to teach to the baptism questions in the Organized book.
Wannaexit,
I remember clearly that Km97 question from reader. The night it was considered, I raised my hand and expressed my thoughts. I made the comment that covering one chapter a week so as to finish the book in 6 months was almost impossible with 99% of students. Did I ever get the evil eye from the elder and others in the audience. Now its back to taking your time and bring in other information and read more scripture.
I always felt like a yo-yo trying to follow their directions.
Yes, even when you see they are wrong in their approach, you must "wait on Jehovah" to help them see the error of their ways.
Heathen,
ROTFLMAO--- I almost fell off my seat with that comment .
I thought that would strike a chord with many long-time attenders. Yes, the material was bad enough but to have a bad or unprepared conductor was torture. Good thing that meeting only lasted an hour. Two trips to the bathroom could cut it down to 45 minutes.
Sunny,
elderette
That's like calling a native american woman a "squaw", Boa!
Actually, I prefer Supreme One.
Where?s Caleb,
I was just reading the 4 Presidents book by Ed Gruss. There was an experience in there of the defining moment of one JW. He overheard 2 elders lambasting a pioneer sister who had missed her hour quota because of a sick child. It seems that the CO was coming and she had brought down the congregation average. She burst into tears. The brother and his wife who had overhead said this was the straw that broke the camel?s back. They left with their children never to return.
Thanks paulE. I?m glad that you could find something useful.
Heathen, few JWs can reason. That is why the WTS published "Reasoning from the Scriptures." I was reading in the 4 WTS Presidents book that Hayden Covington, counsel for the WTS, suggested the Theocratic School be started because he was tired of defending young JW brothers who demonstrated in court how little they knew about the Bible, one did not know what the word "Genesis" meant, one did not know if Joshua was in the OT or the NT.
Blondie
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TrailBlazer04
Blondie,
Thanks...It helps to know what kind of drivel the publishing company is going to instill in my stepkids' heads.
Personally, I don't know how the manipulative language can be used...but that's just me!
TB
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Pork Chop
I thought it was a rather sad article actually, and the second section didn't make much sense to me at all, maybe it was just a filler.
Cygnus, now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time, a long time. Maybe I just don't read the threads that you post on.
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blondie
Hi trailblazer, it is good to know whatever ideas anyone is putting in your kids' head.
Porkchop, the second part was a lame attempt to get JWs to start Bible studies by teaching them how to do it. My experience over the last 40 years plus is that most JWs don't write down their placements, if they do they put down such little information that when they finally make the RV months later, they can't read what they wrote. I have made many JWs try to turn over their RVs to me because they don't want to take the time to make them. I have known JWs who afraid that starting a Bible study would tie them down, take too much time and be too much of a commitment. I know from the few JWs I still see that except for family studies, few recorded studies were started with people in the door to door work.
Blondie
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Cygnus
Well I certainly will agree that the majority of JWs don't seem to be all that interested in starting Bible studies. If you can find a Witness who has brought 5 people into the religion by means of door to door or informal witnessing, I'd be surprised.
Pork Chop, I'm alive and well. Just recently started posting again. Here and on the Profind board regarding the JW ban in Russia. Glad to see you're alive and well yourself.
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Pork Chop
Blondie I meant the first sub-heading.