by my-journey 70 Replies latest jw friends
Hi my-journey and welcome to this site.
I noticed you used the word "hate" often in your post referring to what other religions think of JW's. I find it hypocritical of you since your religion has preached more hatred against my Wiccan religion than us Wiccan's have of yours.
Devon
So is this site just to bash Jehovah's Witnesses?
No (it's obvious you really haven't checked out the site.)
Who do you think knows the truth?
God, Jehovah, Elohim, Jesus the Christ
Do you think about Armageddon?
Once in a great moon, but mostly I think about our Creator's positive plans for our lives, that which WE can control.
Do you hate Jehovah's Witnesses
Actually, I've never been a JW, only have a friend who's one... I don't hate anyone, and as far as the Witnesses go, alot of their beliefs are so unscriptural and man-made, it's hard to take them serious.
I want to know that I have come into the right religion.
If you keep a open mind and don't wear blinders I think you'll discover the TRUTH about the 'truth'.
When I talk to my Baptist Church friends, I get more confident, as I point them to stuff they didn't know, or don't observe (e.g. it says a tree (for cross)
Don't get too confident.... it's been proven that it was indeed a cross, not a stake. Baptists 1 JWs 0
If Jehovah's Witnesses weren't the true religion, I don't think there would be one
So many other people in other religions make the same claim with just as much, if not more conviction.
I am new to the faith though, and like to look at other religions, as they always seem to confirm that I have just joined the right one.
I think you need to examine your own religions real history first, then ask yourself that question.
My Journey (are you an OO programmer by any chance??),
I don't hate anybody (OK - maybe Alanis Morrisette...) but a lot of us are angry somehow, even angry with ourselves because we let ourselves be conned by a multi-national corporation masquerading a "the true religion".
I guess sometimes the anger maybe appears as hatred for the Organisation but thats not really true in a lot of cases. Or if it is, the hatred would be against the evil people at the top of the organisation who really are directly employed by the Father of Lies, Satan.
But there would be very few here who would say that hate all the brothers and sisters. A lot of JW's are really nice and sincere, though gullible, people.
Hope this helps...
The Pope
Have you all gone back to the ailing Catholic/Protestant churches?
Now that's the pot calling the kettle black!
Devon
Hello my-journey.
I was a JW for some 20 plus years, but not Dfd or dAd, but only just fading away. I saw and experienced many shocking things in the Org that made me question my whole belief system. My conscience no longer allows me to belong to a relgion that believes that being loved is based on your performance in the Org--I now believe in unconditional love. Sadly, when you stop hating you can no longer be a JW. Much of the message that they preach is hateful towards others. Example: Non-witness friends and relatives are wicked and deserving of death, etc, etc. Can you deny that this is the word that is being preached by Jehovah's Witnesses? (Just look through the literature and listen up at the meetings) I could no longer accept this thinking and it was making me ill and depressed. I am free now to love my family and others who I feel close to.
I don't hate anyone, but I feel for those who are not allowed to love AND I don't support or respect the Organization that is preventing them from doing so.
Love (unconditionally)
cybs
Come watch the troll feeding!
Every day at 7AM and 3 PM... it's FUN!
My journey,
First of all, in order for persecution to be advantageous it must be because of bearing Jesus' name (Matt. 24:9), not because of following teachings of the Watchtower Society. Jesus didn't begin the Watchtower Society. Nor did he ever recommend Bible study aids produced by this book publishing corporation. Jesus and the Watchtower Society are two separate entities. Jesus is the Truth. Please don't confuse them.
When active witnesses post here, do they count that as "time?"
xqs!!!!!! Thanks alot. I was NOT aware of what you posted Thanks .
I guess they are waiting for the oldies to kick the bucket to change old light....
I guess that is one reason I am hanging on..... I will pounce on them the minit they change it PUBLICly
"Have you all gone back to the ailing Catholic/Protestant churches? Have you moved onto Islam, in spite of the negative press, etc? What do you all believe now?"
Gone BACK to churches? The way these questions are worded seem to make the assumption that the only reason someone would leave JWs is to worship elsewhere. Or came from a different form of worship. For myself, I was raised in NO religion, became a JW, and have now left the JWs for various reasons (none were doctrinal at the time of my leaving, however, I have since learned that all the questions I had when studying and were unsatisfactorily answered (and I foolishly ignored my doubts), are basically all the completely screwed up doctrine that the JWs promote without basis in scripture). From what I've read a lot of people here were raised as JWs from birth, and many of them were in positions of "taking the lead" in the organization, from longterm pioneers to elders to overseers, and many served at Bethel. As for what I or anyone else believes now, you really should check out other posts. Beliefs range from agnosticism/atheism, to other religions, to worship of God alone, sans religious affiliation. You'll also see that many question lots now.
"Who do you think knows the truth? Are you still searching, or do you think Jehovah is the truth, but because it didn't work out with you first time round, you've decided not to continue looking, cos you know you've found the truth, but it didn't work out convenient to you - I hope that's clear?"
My personal belief is, if there is a God and he/she wants us to know, he/she will do so without needing to oppress, segregate families and the other things that religions do in his/her name. I'm not searching because if God exists and loves me, then he/she knows the kind of crap that I've been through in the name of him/her and will show mercy and forgiveness to my waywardness. And if God doesn't exist, then it doesn't matter at all. As for "truth," the WTBTS does not have the market cornered on truth and they know it...that's why their "truth" keeps changing.
"Do you think about Armageddon? Do you now believe that this earth wasn't desgned by [a] God, but was a random accident? Do you hate Jehovah's Witnesses (I expect you wouldn't HATE them, just not believe in what they say, if you have moved to Protestant/Catholic religions)?"
I can't believe anything the WTBTS teaches, and if there is such a thing as Armageddon, they are now bloodguilty for me as a result of their lies. I will hope that the god that runs Armageddon will take that bloodguilt into account, as well as the many many more who have been damaged and hurt MUCH more than I ever have been.
As for the creation of the earth and the people on it, unless it somehow starts affecting my day to day life, I'm not going to worry about it. I'm here, the earth's here and for my short lifespan, we're compatible.
Do I hate JWs? No. I don't like to hate anyone. That's a big reason I was miserable AS a JW. Love your neighbour as yourself, but judge them by their attitude and inability to buy into the program as designed by the WTBTS (oh, we say we aren't judging, but it always happened, and then we blamed our imperfection on it, and felt guilty that we couldn't be more magnanimous...week after week, month after month...). Love your brothers and your sisters, it's an identifying mark, but also put up with their judgement of you, their callousness, rudeness, lies, gossip, backstabbing and false friendship. (Read some of my posts to see how much love was shown to me as I went through losing both parents in death and more recently the shunning by my last blood relative. My baby sister would never have believed, much less actually said to me that "Satan had me" unless the WTBTS hadn't made up her mind for her...I didn't leave under any misdeed or shameful conduct, I simply wanted not to be treated like crap anymore.) I had such conflict trying to be true to my own internal judgement and intuitive way of treating people versus the WTBTS' interpretation of 'love' and 'compassion' and 'empathy.' There is very little that is Christlike in the organization's overall attitude, and I think that many sincere and honesthearted JWs do their best in spite of the horrible atmosphere and conditions they try to live in. I feel pity and empathy for those ones, because they are truly trying to do what they feel is right, and I've been there. It's my deepest wish that they are able to get out while they still have a measure of their lives to live.
"I really did think this site was aimed at Jehovahs Witnesses, but it's just a hate site, and you're all entitled to hate Jehovah's Witnesses - after all, most people do, even so called Christians - however, I do enjoy reading anything that challenges the faith, I want to know that I have come into the right religion."
Interesting that you judge every one of us based on your reading of how many posts? Did you even realize you did that? Probably not, because after all, that's how you've been trained. I was there once too. I'm sorry you're still there.
Yes, there are people who are bitter and hurt and angry, and that shows through, which are also signs of loss and grief, which is a common bond of the victims here. Are you noticing how I'm choosing my words? Loss, grief and victimization...that is the real legacy of the WTBTS. If only you could understand how violated most people feel upon being raped by the WTBTS. Yes, raped...much like the child held up as an example to be lauded for saying that a blood transfusion was tantamount to rape, it was such a violation (remember that Awake?), people here have been violated by an organization's unscriptural, unloving, uncaring, and oftentimes deadly misapplication of themselves as God's emissaries. It's not a prophetic/scriptural vindication of JWs being 'hated' as the WTBTS wants you to think, as someone else said the world on the whole doesn't 'think' about JWs beyond the publishing work. It's the lost time, hope, relationship with God, and interference in lives to a minute detail, that make people so hurt. It's the abuse that has been swept under the rug for years, the silent victims who, until they banded together, didn't have a voice or hope (the horrible press about JWs and child abuse only came to bear because no one was listening to the desperate cries WITHIN the organization...and it's shameful that the WTBTS tries to take these victims and re-victimize them by not acknowledging the organization's guilt in not stepping up and saying a word to authorities that could have helped and removed the offenders from the midst...or at the very least put in controls to warn the innocent of the danger...they did NOTHING).
Most of the people here acknowledge that the average JW is not to blame, nor are they even aware of how much damage those in positions of upper responsibility have done. Although even as I say it, hate and blame are relative and varying, and I'm speaking in generalizations, something I don't like to do overmuch. I also don't like to speak for others, especially when there are thousands of page hits here that show people speak for themselves quite well. ;) I've been coming here since about March, so those are just my overall impressions.
"When I talk to my Baptist Church friends, I get more confident, as I point them to stuff they didn't know, or don't observe (e.g. it says a tree (for cross) in their bible 3 times, Christmas, Sun God etc). If Jehovah's Witnesses weren't the true religion, I don't think there would be one (or who is? Anyone think differently?), as I don't see others that outwardly appear peaceful, truthful and ready to serve God down to the letter, for want of a better expression. I am new to the faith though, and like to look at other religions, as they always seem to confirm that I have just joined the right one."
Most people don't know what the JWs know, that's true. That doesn't make it the truth, or even Bible-based. I suggest to you to learn more about your own religion's history, source of doctrine, from perspectives OUTSIDE of the WTBTS publications. Wait, that's not allowed, it could stumble your faith (or show you the real truth...hmmm...). Okay then have a look at some of the posts (there are some recent) about the differences that are made between first printing of a WT or Awake magazine and the bound volume or CD version. Why is there a difference in what is being published? Why are the early books and publications not present on those CDs...I mean it's important to know that what is taught is relatively consistent, especially if it's from God, right? 606 or 607 BCE? 1874, 1879, 1914, 1925, Jehovah living on a relatively nearby star, pyramid worship, corporate power struggles, the 'scholarly' Fred Franz and how much of the doctrine shifted as a result of his ideas, not God's, the reason for the understanding of 'generation' changing in 1995...even if 1/100th of what I learned upon leaving JWs is true, boy does the WTBTS have a LOT to answer for...and I have a feeling that a lot more than 1/100th of it is true.
"Isn't the URL a bit misleading? Shouldn't it be called "EX-JW's" or something, so that people are forewarned that you people are former JWs, anti-JWs even? Shouldn't there be some kind of notice on the homepage that whoever is looking to learn about the religion has come to the wrong site?"
Well, not everyone here is out of the organization. Some stay in, hiding their true feelings, to keep their families. Think about that. Faced with possibly losing their flesh and blood relatives, they prefer to live a life they know isn't Bible-based to keep contact with their family. To me, who has lost enough family, this is the highest form of betrayal. The god of the WT wants people to suffer in a way that has nothing to do with Christianity or love. The ones at the top, in power, are simply afraid that their empire will crumble if too many people talk to those who are freed of their particular brand of enslavement. The numbers are already dwindling, they are losing their youth like a hemorrage from an artery (someone here used that illustration and it is just SO apt...and I can't remember who but I credit that source...).
As for the URL being misleading, according to the WTBTS most here are apostates or at the very least carrying on in the debauched ways of the most depraved 'worldly' activities...so doesn't it make sense that we're just out to suck in gullible JWs and interested ones and taint them? Wow...it's good to see that by so many people treating your post with polite responses just how accurate that picture painted by the WTBTS is...as I sit here doing the same things I did before I left the JWs (reading, playing with my cats, cleaning my house, going out for coffee and movies), I know that I'm evil. Really. (Okay I'm giving in to a bit of sarcasm here...please don't misunderstand, it's just sometimes very frustrating to hear JWs who come here relay the same old same old...when the reality is so different.)
I think the URL was misleading to you because for some reason you thought you'd find a non-WTBTS created site that would bring the truth into perspective. The WTBTS told their membership years ago to stay off the internet, and not to create sites that shared the 'truth,' only putting a link to the WTBTS. As a result, I would venture to say that the only sites you'll find are those like this one, or less 'reasonable' than this one (I saw some pretty hatemongering sites out there...there are some very very unhappy non-JWs out there...whether they be ex- or simply cannot stand JWs as a religious entity), or JWs who are sincere but don't listen to well to Mother (aka WTBTS). As an aside, because there is a great deal of 'truth' and true stories circulating on the web, and more people (JWs) are having their eyes opened because of it. Now what is the REAL reason the WTBTS wants the membership to stay off the internet?
"Also, what is that DONATE icon for? Who is it exactly that needs sponsoring, if you are all EX-Jehovahs Witnesses?"
It's been covered elsewhere, but I did want to say that it's because of the selflessness of a person who created and pays for this board, and the many people that give of themselves to help others come out of a difficult situation, friendless and hopeless, that many many many people who have been victims of WTBTS abuse have found a real hope...and friendships to help through the difficulties inflicted by leaving this cult. No life isn't perfect, but at least we're free to live it now. Well for the most part. And there's someone to listen when the pain is so intense and there's no one left from our former lives who cares enough to do so.
"Thanks in advance for your replies. I'm going through a lot of anti-JW stuff online. It's quite funny. Some just blatantly hate JWs, others say its doctrines are false, but then also say: Islam could be truer than Christianity, because there is no trinity as God couldn't pray to himself. In effect, they prove JW doctrines whilst questioning them. I thank you once again for not getting offended at my post."
I really liked the example of circular argument given in another response. I think it makes more sense than anything I could add.
I would like to ask you a question or two though...what is lacking in your faith or understanding that you feel you need to confirm outside your own organization (something that is frowned upon if not completely forbidden) the value of its teachings? You've mentioned validating your beliefs by holding them up to others' and finding everything else lacking (Baptist friends and internet perspectives). Could it be that your underlying questions or doubts are not being answered to your spiritual satisfaction within the organization to which you belong? I urge you to think about that as you take a look around here...oh, and just for your own safety's sake, don't post your real name or personal info...the WTBTS is very interested in this site and actually has brothers (in good standing) monitoring it (kind of a double standard there if you ask me, but you didn't...hehe). If you're happy as a JW and want to continue, divulging your personal info could hinder that.
Personally, that kind of brings thoughts of Orwell's 1984 and Big Brother to mind...you may not feel the same.
I've spent over an hour responding to this. I did this because I think you're sincere...and I hope that you take the time to think about what I said and questioned of you.
Sincerely, Cerise
