Evil

onacruse

One of the great promises of Biblical Utopia is that evil will be eradicated from the universe: Satan and the demons will be destroyed in the lake of fire, all their works will be undone, and evil-doers will subsequently be forever banned from existence...even so far as "The former things will not be called to mind."

What does that mean?

Does not the mere memory of evil things constitute a continuation of their existence?

But if those evil things are truly forgotten, then what was the point in letting them happen at all?

It puts the lie to the idea of "the permission of evil will stand as everlasting proof to all creation that God's way was the right way."

Craig

peacefulpete

Rather than call this a "Bibical" Utopia we should recognize this particular interpretation of the patchwork book of Revelation as a WT attempt to make the imagery fit their preconceptions. Other sects interpret it very differently to fit their own. But the point of your thread is valid nonetheless. a world with no death, no storms, no accidents, no discomfort would not only not be paradise but would not be earth. Beings so easily damaged in an environment so full of sharp, heavy,slippery & hot things would require 24/7 protection from themselves and the physical world. The whole idea is ludicrous.

funkyderek

Isn't one of the usual answers to the question of "Why does God permit evil?" that it is necessary so we can have free will. If that were true, wouldn't it mean that in a world without evil, there can be no free will?

Obviously Secret

I think most christians believe in forgetting everything and becoming new in heaven, new earth. Weird thing is God is the originator of evil, so unless he forgets stuff or he is destroyed it can't really be no evil. Even though if he is destroyed there will be nothing. So I dunno... I don't want to forget all the things that happened here since that's what made me me.

bebu

But if those evil things are truly forgotten, then what was the point in letting them happen at all?

A guy from my high school class went thru prison and later a work release where I was doing a practicum for college. He was a bit embarassed to see me there. Later, at my 20-year high school reunion I saw him for the first time since the work release period, and I asked him how things had been going. He didn't recognize me at all, and when I finally mentioned the work release (I didn't really want to bring it up) he told me that he was so far past that point in life that he never thought about it at all anymore.

I think ALL our experiences are like the wooden boards which make forms for poured concrete to harden in. We look all the time at the wooden forms and scratch our heads and wonder: why they are so necessary?... but in the end, those exterior forms are all removed, and the new foundation or steps or wall is revealed. No one thinks about the wooden frames and forms anymore, but they all help to define who we are.

bebu

onacruse

peacefulP:

Other sects interpret it very differently

Interesting. Perhaps you have an example or two, ready at hand?

funkyD:

wouldn't it mean that in a world without evil, there can be no free will?

Interesting point! In the converse, a 'divine' preclusion of the existence of evil (even in the mere memory of such), constitutes nothing less than predestination. (I really need to get up to speed on Aquinas and Augustine...LOL)

ObviouslyS:

Welcome to JWD.

I don't want to forget all the things that happened here since that's what made me me.

Which suggests that, in the "polarized" universe we appear to inhabit, good and evil are simply two aspects of the same thing (positive/negative, light/dark, good/bad/ up/down); you can't define the one without the other, and the combination of those experiential "elements" is what defines us...or, perhaps we should say: the combination of those "elements" is how we define the universe?

Farkel

onacruse,

: Does not the mere memory of evil things constitute a continuation of their existence?

: But if those evil things are truly forgotten, then what was the point in letting them happen at all?

: It puts the lie to the idea of "the permission of evil will stand as everlasting proof to all creation that God's way was the right way."

You silly twit! Are you not aware of the Bible-Based(tm) way of erasing this all from our memories, so it will not create any conflicts? It's called "antimatter" and BibleGod will use this so we won't have any problems with those memories. When "antimatter" comes into contact with "matter", they annihilate each other. Thus the indisputable facts show that "antimemories" when they come into contact with "memories" will cancel each other out.

Then we can all pet lions and watch misquitos suck pulp from straws. Don't worry about it!

This is all Bible-Based(tm).

Farkel

onacruse

Farkel:

When "antimatter" comes into contact with "matter", they annihilate each other.

No, they don't.

Exactly as with evil and good.

onacruse

bebu:

I think ALL our experiences are like the wooden boards which make forms for poured concrete to harden in. We look all the time at the wooden forms and scratch our heads and wonder: why they are so necessary?... but in the end, those exterior forms are all removed, and the new foundation or steps or wall is revealed. No one thinks about the wooden frames and forms anymore, but they all help to define who we are.

Considering that I've been in construction for most of my adult life, your comparison makes perfect sense.

The house I'm working on now has been around for over 50 years, and the owners are pouring considerable effort into the 'renovation'; but no matter how much 'remodeling' we do, it's still, in some serious respects, the same house, with the same fundamental flaws.

talesin

Farkel, too much Star Trek.

Seriously though, onacruse, check out Jean Vanier's writings. He's a theologian (recently deceased) who discusses the concept of duality, I have been thinking about it a bit lately. Of good and evil coming from within, and how it exists in each one of us. It's a bit much for me to digest, I left it all behind so long ago, but he's quite well respected and what I call a 'gentle Christian', and well worth reading if you are wrestling with this question.

tal

Edit to say, jgnat may have some input on this, I know she is familiar with his work.

Evil

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