ros,
I don't think I've ever seen you this touchy before. You were posed some good questions and your arguments were attacked in a mostly respectful manner. Then you just clammed up and said "I don't wanna play anymore." Dubs do that, and I can understand why. Fundies do that I can understand why, but you are neither.
You told me that logic is not always trustworthy and JanH pointed out that (basically) that is true, IF the argument is valid but not sound. Arguments by necessity MUST be given the ability to be valid, so as to test the validity of the premises. Otherwise, science and breakthrough ideas would not happen. By assuming that any kinds of premises are true, the first step is to see if the conclusion in an argument necesssarily comes from the premises. Once the argument is found to be valid, THEN the premises can be tested. If any of them fail, the whole argument can fall.
Jan gave you a solid argument for the non-existence of God and you just nit-picked at it, IMHO.
What needs to be directly addressed is:
Since God CREATED everything, then God created evil. If God did not create evil then he did not create everything. It can be no other way. Even if you mince around and say that God created the possibility of evil, but didn't actually create evil, then it begs the question, why would God do that if he didn't want any evil to exist in his Creation? If you use the "God's creatures have free will" argument, I guarantee you will see that one quickly demolished. Free will is fine and dandy, but if God did not even create a context called "evil" or a concept called "evil" then any exercise of free will would not be able to do any evil. Therefore, God created the possibility of evil. Why did he do that? I wonder myself.
That is the whole key. The Bible says that everything he created is good and that nothing came into this earth without him. Yet evil exists in this earth. Therefore, evil must also be "good," yet we know that evil is the opposite of good. We have a serious dilemma on our hands.
The evidence the Bible offers contradicts the observable facts, unless one is audacious enough to admit that NO evil exists on this earth. Yet, we humans DO have a concept of a thing called "evil" and God created everything including the concepts we have. How could we even have a NOTION about a thing called "evil" if God didn't give us the ability to have that notion? We couldn't. Therefore, God has a big hand in being responsible for not only the possibility of evil, but for it's very existence and our awareness of it. It cannot be any other way if we use the Bible as our guidepost.
I certainly have no problems with your personal beliefs, but like all personal religious beliefs, they cannot be substantiated with any formal logic.
God gave us logic. God also gave us the ability to have faith. Faith and logic are mutually incompatible. Therefore, God has a great sense of humor and is laughing at us all at our expense right now. Or maybe there's another and better explanation. That is what I'm looking to discover. I'm fairly sure I already have the answers and when I find the right questions, I will re-discover those answers.
But I do have my priorities, and now I must take a break and let loose a really huge fart. (I hope it not one of those farts that my Mom calls "surprises," i.e. "time to burn some underwear.) Since God made everything, God made farts, too. He could have found a better way to make us deal with gas without blowing up into thousands of pieces with all that the pressure, but he chose farts as a relief instead. As I said, he has a great sense of comedy for those of us in the human arena. I think God had man make elevators for the sole purpose of laughing at the poor schmuck who fires one off on the first floor of a packed elevator cage during a fifty-floor ride.
Farkel
