A Somewhat Surprising Letter

by JanH 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • Suzis Ghost
    Suzis Ghost

    Jan,

    All kidding aside, and totally serious here. Wow.. ME being serious.. DOH. Mark this day... it doesn't happen too often.

    I have experience along these lines. Fair use guidelines are different for each type of media, and vary depending on educational useage and commercial usage. If your site is still up and running, even if you haven't updated it, it's still considered a valid site, and thus you are subject to international and national copyright laws.

    Usually you need to go through an author's agent/management/publisher to get said permissions to use a percentage of a work. Too many quotes in one place equals more than the percentage allowed, equals plaigerism. Sorry to even have to use that word. It's icky, especially when you have permissions, etc. straight from the author. It's technically considered duplication after a certain point, and unfortunately the certain point isn't a very forgiving and generous one.

    If you want, I can send you some info on international copyright laws, multimedia and fair use guideline sources for national and international permissions, since we go through this at my site with the authors and artists a lot.

    Let me know,

    Suzi

    (Actually trying to help out, so be nice.)

    Because I could not stop for Death
    He kindly stopped and took me out to lunch.

  • larc
    larc

    Free2Bme,

    Before you become too cynical, perhaps you should put your self in Ray Franzs' situation. He was put on the street at the age of 60 with no source of income. What would you have done? Would you have spent the thousands of hours he did to write a book? Most people at the age of 25 let alone 60 would not have the intellectual ability or the emotional stamina to do what he did. If you don't believe it, try to write a book. As JAVA pointed out, his book is very modestly priced and has done enormous good. And as the Bible says, "Don't muzzle the ox that treads the grain." And as Dark Clouds knows from his work with artists, they are due an income for their contribution. Ray Franz is worth far more than he is recieving in income.

  • Kent
    Kent

    Hi Rick

    H2O got a similar threat from an attorney, Ms. So-and-so, to remove Farkel's "1914 for Dummies" and all "________ for Dummies" posts from H2O as a copyright infringement. We were threatened with legal action if we failed to comply with this demand. I felt H2O was too important to others to risk losing over an otherwise "freedom" issue, so I complied with their demand immediately.

    I noticed that, but I didn't comply at all. This "threat" is just nonsense. They doesn't have any legal right to be the only ones using the word "Dummies". The only thing they can hope to do by threatening anyone using this word is proving they're the biggest dummies of all!

    I also added "dummies" to the "CDA Sensor" software that filtered obscene language, that is why Farkel had to use "D*ummies" or something like that to get around it, LOL. I didn't care because I was simply fulfilling a technical legal demand, and "D*ummies" isn't the same as "Dummies" nor would it show up when the attorneys are searching for keyword "Dummies" on the search engines. (That's how they found Farkel's posts, because the simple html files for WWWBoard were on all search engines.) ;-)

    A legal demand to remove the word Dummies????? What kind of legal demand is that????? They came to me with the same crap, and I told them to go fuck themselves - and come up with some evidence they were the only ones in the world allowed to use the word Dummies. They failed to produce evidence - and only produced new threats. So, they have no case. Thy're so stupid it stinks!

    They mean business, Kent, and non-compliance could risk protracted litigation and losing the Watchtower Observer site, according to what someone I know familiar with law said.

    They can go fuck themselves, Rick. I did NOT comlpy, and I do not plan to comply in the future. If some 3rd grade moron of an american lawyer believes he can threaten me in Norway with his bulshit American law, he's even more stupid than anyone believes.

    They threatened, yes. I didn't comply. New threats, I told them to go to hell - and besides that - I demanded them to mail me in Norwegian, using Norwegian law - since I'm a Norwegian Citizen, is running a Norwegian Website on a Norwegian server in Norway.

    I won't loose no site at all. They haven't sent me more stupid letters after they found out I published their insane demands and threats online - together with my remarks to them.

    Maybe you should call it "1914 for D*ummies" and add an asterisk so when they check your site, it will fail to show the trademarked word? Just a thought.

    I asked them to show me evidence of this "trademark". They failed to do so - and - as I said, they can go fuck themselves. The page is named "1914 for Dummies", and that's what the name will be in the future as well.

    They can check as much as they want. I noted the page was a parody - both on the Watchtower and the IDG - which in their own special way is exactly as stupid both of them.

    Yakki Da

    Kent

    "The only difference between God and Adolf Hitler is that God is more proficient at genocide."

    Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
    http://watchtower.observer.org

  • Free2Bme
    Free2Bme

    Java & Larc
    Sorry if you feel I was being hard on Ray Franz.I think his C of C book is a gem and a life saver and absolutely priceless. I suppose I am very much a dreamer and idealist but hey I don't begrudge Ray compensation for all he has been through and his hard work.
    I just feel that there is some great work being done by individuals on the net who use Ray's material to reach hearts of JW's trapped and crying out for help. They do not abuse the privilege and write their own researched articles as well.They are not in it for any material gain but only seek to inform and aid JW's to break free.
    Surely Ray would be delighted that his info is reaching JW's who although daring enough to lurk would faint if caught buying THAT book.
    In my opinion most people who have seen glimpses of Ray's books go on to buying them anyway.They've just had their taste buds tweaked.
    I'd love to hear Ray Franz' comments.

    Free

  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    Sounds to me like Ms. badame is 'doin' her job' without consideration for anything but biz as usual, PC fashion.

    Maybe if some of the folks receiving her threats were to harvest a few quotes such as this: "Surely Ray would be delighted that his info is reaching JW's who although daring enough to lurk would faint if caught buying THAT book. In my opinion most people who have seen glimpses of Ray's books go on to buying them anyway.They've just had their taste buds tweaked."
    and forward them to Ms. Badass, she might get a CLUE that the Internet use of quotes form their material is actually SELLING her product for her?

    I don't think 'Commentary Press' is Ray Franz, or vice versa. I'm pretty sure they are just a publishing firm and he but one client. He may not even know about these letters. Just because one corporate beancounter has her panties in a bunch doesn't mean the authors are to blame.

    I know I would never have heard of OR read Ray's books without the extensive quotes I read on the Internet. And Commntary Press would never have impinged on MY consciousness in any way without those quotes. So if Ms. Badass wants to bite some of the hands that feed her, leave her to her stupidity. But don't blame Ray...

  • JanH
    JanH

    Fact: Commentary Press is Ray Franz.

    - Jan
    --
    Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The DevilĀ“s Dictionary, 1911]

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    hey Everybody:

    I don't know much about internet publishing, but I read in a post recently on the board that Ray Franz, wasn't doing too good heathwise. I mean the guy is old. He's got to be in at least his early to mid 80's by now, huh? Maybe some other ppl are just suggesting to him that he be more concerned about the financial side of his life to ensure that he has as many resources available to him in his last days as possible. Maybe all this legal stuff is just some consequences of those efforts.

    ONE...

    Bigboi

    "it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

  • Suzis Ghost
    Suzis Ghost

    Larc,

    SIGH. I thought we had cleared this one up, but seems not with you. I AM NOT DARK CLOUDS. He's my LIVE-IN BOYFRIEND.
    _I_-- SUZI-- am the owner/webmistress/el presidente of my website. DC writes there when he gets around to not posting to this place... geez.
    I already had my account deleted once, I don't much appreciate that, and I would thank you to not try to keep the joke going about me being Chuck. That being said, yes, I DO have some knowledge about reimbursing the artists/writers/photographers/programmers on my site. It's mostly by trade, and they sign a contract stating specifically that they give me permission to use their work. That, and since they aren't known, they don't have agents/publishers, so the legal issues are a lot easier.

    The programmers can use me as a reference if needed, and since I'm technically a dot com, not of the huge corporate variety, but nonetheless, a dot com (who I'm proud to say, lasted through the dot com bankruptcy times), it's good practice. And they get to use my webspace for demo stuff.

    I learned about fair use laws when I was getting my masters degree, so I still have a list of websites, etc. where fair use laws are given for various forms of media (including writing, art, photography, multimedia including Flash presentations, AVI and MOV files, movie clips, etc.)
    I went through a lot of BS when I started the site. I've had people use my pictures on their porn sites and without permission, which is in direct violation of copyright AND fair use guidelines. Especially since I try to keep everything as safe for enlightened family viewing as possible.

    A quick run-down of loopholes for copyright issues. (Believe me, there's a million of em)

    If you use a musical piece, and it's for educational purposes and not within public domain (classical music is considered public), you are allowed to sample up to 30 seconds of a song, or no more than 35% of the entire musical piece.
    How to get around that: sample it, and change it to something more akin to your liking. As long as it's not recognizable as the original sample, it's considered a new work.

    If you use images, you need permission from the photographer and the model, unless the photographer has sole ownership and a release form from the model/legal guardian.
    How to get around it: warp the picture in some way. I believe it's something like three filtered effects applied to an image so that it is markedly different from the original, it's considered a new work.

    Writing... that's a lot trickier. If the author does not have an international copyright, and you're in another country other than where the author is writing, then technically it's alright to use the work, as long as you have permission/give credit to the author and the work. It was due to an international copyright clause that a copy of Nosferatu (the Murnau version of 1922) survived being destroyed. (briefly: a relative of Bram Stoker was trying to claim that the movie was a form of plaigerism, and that because no permission/royalties had been exchanged, every copy of the movie in Europe was to be destroyed. The loophole was that inernational copyright law had never been applied for by Stoker, so technically the international copyright was up for grabs, and Nosferatu was saved in America from being wiped out.)
    OK.. getting back. Writing is harder to use without signed documentation to cover your ass. That's the unfortunate truth. I explain that to my writers and to anyone who submits any form of art/writing to my site. If I choose to use their work, it's automatically giving me permission with no future objections, to use it as I see fit. Internet laws are finally starting to catch up with copyright laws, but it's honestly safer to be "safe" and cover your ass. When a publishing company views a site with quotes being used, they view the site as a total work, not page by page. You may have used a quote per page, but if the book is only 10 pages long and your site is ten pages total, it's an infringment.
    Ultimately, if you have permission, even if the author says it's OK, get it in writing, and use proper quoting technique to give credit, combined with a link back to the author's personal site.

    So endeth my ten cents worth. Hope it helped.
    When you go to a copyright site, with info, make sure to check the last time it was updated to be sure you're getting the most current copyright laws, especially since just in the two years it took me to get my masters, the laws changed significantly.

    Suzi-- who isn't Chuck

    Because I could not stop for Death
    He kindly stopped and took me out to lunch.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit