Are we giving the Watchtower more power than it deserves?

by willowstreet 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • willowstreet
    willowstreet

    Just recently, NPY and myself were at a party and the subject came up as to how we knew Six. I found myself hesitate to explain that our connection was that we had all been Jehovah's Witnesses.

    After I told them...it was no big deal. They all explained how they had been Penecostal and Catholic and they had their abusive stories to tell..

    We were all the same.

    The point is...I think we make a bigger deal of our past affiliation than it deserves to be.

    Its kinda narcisistic really. We are not special because we are ex witnesses, remember, we deluded ourselves into thinking we were something special while we were in the organization. Could we be doing the same thing...but this time because we are ex witnesses?.

    Maybe its all in our head?

    Why give it more authority and power, unless we believe it to be somehting that it is not.

    willowstreet

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Willow,

    I both agree and disagree with you...and I'm not sure how I feel about ambiguity either....

    The difference with the X dubs and X Catholics and Pents is that NORMALLY the Catholics and Usually the Pent family doesn't disown the X, where as Normally and Usually the Dubs do disown the X.

  • notperfectyet
    notperfectyet

    Hey ex sis in law twice removed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    LOL..I still remember the look on your face when your friend kept asking how we knew 6of9...LOL Priceless.

    Just remember, you weren't raised in it, and your immediate family never was, and by the looks of it your daughter never will be. ( happy dance ) It is a little different when you have kids and parents in.

    Got your dates yet when are are gonna get out here and visit?

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    It's ok, most people are hesitant to even admit they know me at all

    I think there is a balance to be struck (structed? struct? strickin? striked?). Of course people are going to parry with their horror stories of "catholic guilt", or wacky baptist we-couldn't-drink-or-dance stories... it's just part of conversation for one thing, and it's their "wacky religion-sheesh-it's-a-wonder-any-of-us-are-normal experience, so of course they want to share it.

    But make no mistake, being a pentecostal or a catholic isn't like being a witness, and across the board, the witness experience is more unique, is more destructive.

    And yet, I do agree with one thing you said:

    Maybe its all in our head?

    Why give it more authority and power,

    The damage was yesterday. This is today.

    That's why tomorrow you should all send presents.

    er.... sumpin' like dat.

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    Being an "ex-jw" to me is really blowing it out of proportion. I see 2s interangled web in many cases a dysfunctional family and being a JW. Being disowned is a common part of the human expeirence. Look into islamic sects and you will see that JWs have it easy. Nobody will throw acid in your face for marrying a non-jw or kill and torture you for having premarital sex.

    I think the watchtower programs people to the there is more to the "organization" than a priniting company and distrobution chain. Any JW that does not work for the WT and does not go out in field service is an "ex-jw" but becaues they feel "its the truth" they never suffer the pit falls and personal problems of one that calls the wt to the carpet. I think the "ex-jw/ apostate" thing is just a label invented to scare jws. In real life there is no in our out. Just how your family and friends treat you. The false yet instant friend ship beaten into our JW heads actually makes some people think it is real. When this is turned off they feel "out side" the org.

    Notice how the wt calls it an "association of brotherhood" this shows you how manufactured it is. If you stop associating there is no brotherhood. I am not trying to blame people for "leaving". Just trying to point out she is right. It is all made up and only hurts if you think it is realy. Remember how when you got sick for too long how all of a sudden all you "friends' stopped comming. Even the elders stopped asking (ordering) people to see you. I know from experience most jws are brothers at the hall the rest are just their relatives. If you have dysfunctional families once they get an excuse to inflict pain by the wt they will do it.

  • Country Girl
    Country Girl

    I do understand your point, willow, however want to add just a little.

    People, as their nature, bond together with others in groups. That is part of the social nature of the human. We feel a kinship more with one group than another. Maybe even several groups. I would feel more kinship with a female sewing group of women over 40, than I would ... say... people that have run from the bulls in Pamplona for the last 25 years.

    Each group has a thing that is unique and particular to it that binds its people together. For us, it's being XJW's: we all know the lingo, had many of the same experiences, and shared many of the same difficulties in recovery. I would venture to say for a person that has been in only five years and gotten out, the experience is quite different from someone who was born into it, and raised in it. Not any less difficult, just different. There are sub-groups, too. Gay XJW's, Christian XJW's, Atheist XJW's... whatever. But what we all share in common is the feeling that somehow we can all help each other in some small or significant way. That doesn't make us "special" to anyone but us, and that's good, we need to feel important to someone else.

    There's plenty of groups that are exclusive, and they are that reason because the group members choose it to be so. They want to have that "special" feeling, and that's their choice. We are not exclusive, and by no means are the members of this board only made up of XJWs.. there's lots that haven't even been one, some that are, and some that are halfway out. Whatever their status, they are being helped as they have made the choice to be here for one reason or another, if even out of curiosity. We're more than happy to welcome them, too! We're not mo betta.. we just *is*

    So I say it's time for a group hug.... okay.. a group... er....

    Country <hey! I got voted in!> Girl

  • Amazing1914
    Amazing1914

    Hi Willowstreet,

    "After I told them...it was no big deal. They all explained how they had been Penecostal and Catholic and they had their abusive stories to tell." ... "We were all the same."

    If a woman tells her story about some trauma, a man might try and relate to it by making some comparative statement ... but does he really understand? Does that comparative statement make men and women the same? I find that when Pentecostals, Catholics and Baptists, etc. make such comparisons about their own problems with their religions, they are sincerely trying to make a connection. However, having grown up Catholic and also functionsed in other religions, I find there is no real comparison, except in certain congregations where the pastor goes goofy. Pentecostals, for example, are overall a nice group. They have few cult-like features. Sometimes a Pentecostal pastor will become a cult leader. Whereas Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult from top to bottom, stem to stern, inside and out, through and through.

    The point is...I think we make a bigger deal of our past affiliation than it deserves to be.

    I believe that some x-JWs do carry on too much over too long a period. Some ex-JWs go as far as connecting the Watchtower to conspiracy theories that affiliate them with the ever-feared secretive Illuminate. Some ex-JWs even attribute special Biblical fulfillment to the Watchtower, making them he Wild beast of Revelation. But, otherwise, I don't think we make too big a deal on average. We need to work out what happened to us, and try to make sense of it, heal, and move on. As you watch these discussion boards, ex-JWs come, stay for a while, and many move on ... some stay for various reasons, usually good reasons. I don't see much in the way of unhealthy attitudes or makeing too big a deal.

    Its kinda narcisistic really. We are not special because we are ex witnesses, remember, we deluded ourselves into thinking we were something special while we were in the organization. Could we be doing the same thing ... but this time because we are ex witnesses?.

    I agree that for a time after leaving the Watchtower, a person could and sometimes does go through new delusions as they evolve and adjust back into normal society. However, it took a great deal to end the initial delusion of being a JW in the first place ... I have not found ex-JWs on average to be self-deluded very often. Most are the opposite, far more hard core realists who have lost all sense of fantasy.

    Maybe its all in our head?

    No, it is not all in our heads. It was all very real. The self-delusions are in a person's head. The extremely negative experiences are not in their heads. Sorting it all out takes time and some of this involves getting our "head" clear.

    Why give it more authority and power, unless we believe it to be somehting that it is not.

    True. The healing, sorting, discovery, discussion, debate, additional research, sharing, growing, evolving, and moving forward all help us to end Watchtower authority. It takes time to openly engage in new things like celebrating birthdays, Christmas, etc. without feeling odd, nervous, like a fish out of water. It takes time before being able to fully be who we really are ... good normal people who have a right to enjoy life as normal people do.

    Jim W.

  • Gretchen956
    Gretchen956
    Look into islamic sects and you will see that JWs have it easy. Nobody will throw acid in your face for marrying a non-jw or kill and torture you for having premarital sex.

    Ah but is there such a distinction between verbal abuse and physical abuse? As someone that works with Domestic Violence I can tell you that the verbal abuse is much more insidious and many times is a precurser to the physical abuse. Why make this analogy? Because the JWs were inside your head. They programmed you. That religion was all you thought about. That religion was your family. That religion was your law and your judge. And since the god of the JW religion could see all, you had to live with the belief that he was watching you pee, watching you burp, watching you sin. There is a reason that they are a cult. And yes, there is some comparison between Pentecostals and Catholics, but so is there between a housecat and a lion.

    Some call themselves recovering Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Recovery is a cycle. But having others to talk to that have shared your experience is good therapy. And this list is free therapy. The only other free therapy I know is bubble wrap.

    Sherry

  • bull01lay
    bull01lay

    I think the WTBTS has as much power as we are prepared to give it...

    When you're a dub, it's an all powerful, all knowing, infallible force.

    Now that we're out - we see it for what it is - a group of men claiming to have the only vehicle in mankinds never-ending search to be closer to God. It has no hold over us any longer, or does it ???? Am I the only one here who still occasionally thinks 'dub' thoughts ? What about those of us unlucky enough to have family still inside - It still weilds a control over us that we write off as 'respect to their beleifs', when avoiding taboo subjects like birthdays, xmas, and even disfellowshipping - I know I have shyed away in the pst from talking to an old friend, 'out of respect'.....

    Maybe it does have more power than we realise after all!!

    Bull

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Willow, interesting thread, interesting thought. I would agree to a certain degree. There have been times (very few times) when I have been treated like an outsider here, since I was never a JW. Yet, I feel a strong affinity to this group because we do share a common past as far as abuse goes. I find the abusive, controlling behavior of my ex-husband to be very similar to what you all have experienced. Also, my defensive reactions to that abuse and my struggle to break free are also similar.

    Yet, most of society at large is ignorant of how bad this spit-and-polish, suit-and-tie, surface-meek organization is. The XJW's need each other, because precious few out there fully realize how bad it can be for anybody who is disloyal to the WTBTS.

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