by willowstreet 17 Replies latest jw friends
G'day Willow,
I'm afraid I can't agree with you on this. Of course, if it were just you and "them", then maybe what you feel to be true, is true.
But the vast majority of ex-dubs have claims on their lives by the WTS through their families. If it weren't for the dysfunctioning family relationships, those many ex-dubs could indeed be entirely free of the WTS.
But until then.....................................................
Cheers, Ozzie
Sometimes I feel like the people who were raised a Jehovah's Witness feel like their plight is worse than those who came in on their own.
I don't necessarilly agree with this.
The person who came in later in life could say....if so inclined
It wasn't hard for you to not celebrate Christmas because you never experienced it, I did.
It wasn't hard for you to quit your dream job, you never had one., I did.
You never had to choose "the truth" over your family, I did.
You never had to deny that you loved your country...you never loved it in the first place....I did.
My point is.....pain is pain, the people who sacrificed choosing to come in and the people who were raised in it have no more legitimate pain over the other.
I chose to come in, and lost friends when I came in, lost friends when I left...lost my family and traditions for eighteen years when chose to be a witness, Just because I wasn't raised a witness doesn't mean I didn't hurt and it doesn't mean I didn't loose people.
willowstreet
Really we're pretty obscure. Most people don't give a shit about JW's or the fact that we left. But it's nice to know other people who have been through it and have seen what a total crock that religion is, and the ways it f*cks up your head.
Hiya willow! Always a pleasure to see you...You know maybe we aren't that special..maybe we are just lucky or fortunate to have met each other and continue to meet others as well. I think for many it is like putting pieces of a puzzle back together. Whether it is people you have missed and then found, inside looks at how things work in JWland, anecdotal evidence that many have been fractured in thier lives and relationships by a common source, etc....Not giving them power means refuting thier stances, living your life to the full and not being driven by guilt. Something for many has become a hard thing to do.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
Because the JWs were inside your head. They programmed you. That religion was all you thought about. That religion was your family. That religion was your law and your judge. And since the god of the JW religion could see all, you had to live with the belief that he was watching you pee, watching you burp, watching you sin. There is a reason that they are a cult.
Dang I must be a broken JW. I can see that effect on others but maybe due to my unique situtation it never sunk in any more than any other religion. Also a cult is just a cult. It is what humans do.
But the vast majority of ex-dubs have claims on their lives by the WTS through their families. If it weren't for the dysfunctioning family relationships, those many ex-dubs could indeed be entirely free of the WTS
Amen the wts does not give a crap about how "exjws" are treated. If you want proof call them up. They will tell you to resolve your problems with the locals. I think the largest issue is people with dysfunctional families flock to jws for obvious reasons. Then when a person "leaves the truth" they realize their is nothing holding their family together except a religion they despise. Imagine this "worldy" people and almost shunned if they have problems with jws or are "immoral". Imagine how jws talk about their openly homosexual co-workers for example. So the only thing protecting the JW from this type of character assasination and shunning is the token religious service. In other words most exs really believed JWs were "better" than the world. Even though the watchtower says otherwise. I am sure if most exs believed the things they did at first they would still be a part of this "high control group".
The point is...I think we make a bigger deal of our past affiliation than it deserves to be.
It is true that most people who have never had any association with the WTBTS simply just don't care and they certainly do not understand our lives and our experiences and what it took for us to get free and what we sacreficed to stay in and then what we sacreficed to get out. It is a big deal to most of us because we lived it and we really did allow it to control every aspect of our lives . . . for some of us, we never knew anything different. I don't talk to "worldly" people about it too much because I have learned that it just doesn't mean crap to them.
I will not, however, ever allow anyone, in or out of the org, to invalidate what I have gone through, and especially what my kids have been through. I would never invalidate what any of you have gone through either.
Corvin
hi, willow!
I can't tell you how many times I have had the same conversion over the past 15 years. Most often with recovering Catholics (catholic guilt can be very oppressive).
Here's how I explain it to my friends,
It's all a matter of degree. It depends on which witless family, which congo, what other forms of abuse you experienced, and the key point (in my opinion), whether you were raised in a home where both parents were full-time practicing true believers.
Born and raised myself. Let's think about what psychologists and psychiatrists say about the formative years, up till the age of 8 or 9. This is the time when our personalities are formed, to a large extent. When the scripts for behaviour are set in our minds. And let's not forget socialization, how we interact with others. This learning extends into our adolescence as well.
Here's my personal experience of growing up witless:
Imagine this ----> You are 5 years old, sitting in a classroom, it's the first time you've every been in a group of people that is neither family nor JW. You have been taught they are all disciples of SATAN THE DEVIL. Scary. Not only that, you are shamed and jeered at every day of your life because you cannot sing the national anthem. You are taunted and beaten by the other kids (you have no friends to defend you) on a daily basis.
Every night, you go to bed terrified about what you have read in the Asleep! about the tortures of your brothers and sisters in Malawi, about people having bicycle spokes shoved through their calves, raped and beaten, tortured. Stuff to dream on.
From birth, you are taught that you are imperfect, and will never measure up.
As a girl, you learn that you must submit to your husband. He is your head, and you have no right to speak up to him. If you marry, you will always be subject to his rulings (if you are a good wife).
You must honour your father and your mother, even if they are molesting, beating or emotionally abusing you. (ref. A Father's Touch, author Donald D'Haene) If you are being abused, there is noone to turn to. After all, teachers and policemen are still worldly, and ruled by Satan.
When you make academic achievements at school, you are praised, but never encouraged to make good grades because they will get you into college. No, you are reminded by your parents constantly to remember that you will quit school at 16 at the very latest, so that you can serve Jah where the need is greater. University education is not an option. It's unthinkable. In fact, at 14 you are taken out of school, so that you can join the ministry full time. After all, 1975 is only a few years away ...
Oh yes, and no reading secular books. There is little time, you have to do Kingdumb service and study for all the meetings, etc. Plus, that is how Satan fills our minds with all kinds of rebellious thoughts.
School dances? Forget it. Sports? Forget it. Music? Forget it. None of these pursuits are considered those of a 'true Christian'.
So, mind control, isolation, fear, these are the tenets upon which you are raised. It can have a huge psychological impact.
After hearing some of the stuff I went through as a kid, most were shocked. "You mean, you never even had one friend?" NOPE "You never went to one dance?" NOPE "You weren't supposed to read books?" NOPE etc, etc,
Then, there is shunning. Yes, losing my complete family (except for limited contact with mom and dad) and all my friends, every one, when I left at 18 and was DFd three years later, had an enormous effect on me. You can imagine. To this day, I have no 'Next of Kin'. My ex-husband is the one listed on my papers, because, in essence, I have no family.
But I'm okay, now. And my friends are effing amazed.
Oh, and speaking of amazed, great analogy, Amazing1914!
Like I said, it's all a matter of degree (see above factors).
Sincerely,
talesin
You "problem" is interesting you are right
"It depends on which witless family, which congo, what other forms of abuse you experienced, and the key point (in my opinion), whether you were raised in a home where both parents were full-time practicing true believers."
The thing i dont think is adressed is the full time preaching true believer are shrinking in most placeds that REQUIRE two parents working full time jobs to raise a family while their child is at a "worldly" daycare. So if you are a JW in san francisco I think you will notice it less like than a JW in ohmaha. The drama will never get a chance to manifest. You will be religated to the legions of normal "church" people that complain about the gays, the drug aggicts, preganant teenagers, that just need jehovah, jesus, alah or who ever "to make the world a better place for you, and for me and the entire human race".
