Abraham's Sacrifice

by Aalena 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Aalena

  I'm taking this philosophy class(OH NO WORLDY WISDOM) and the instructer mentioned how it always bothered him how Abraham's God(Yaweh or Jehovah to us) had put him through the ordeal of even asking him to sacrifice his son. I identified with this because it's something that always bothered me as well. I know it was supposedly just a "test" but to me it doesn't seem like something Jehovah would ever do when taking into consideration his characteristics outlined in the bible. I mean, it's a bit deceiptful and manipulative-- both qualities the bible(or perhaps it was JWs) suggests he is VERY much against. If God is perfect, unfailing, etc. how could he even begin to deceive someone in this way only to test their loyalty? Job now comes to mind also. Would God REALLY make someone suffer just to win a bet with Satan?

  I suppose this post is questioning Christianity more than JWs but am not certain. Perhaps someone has taken the accounts completely different than how I was taught to read them.

  The thing that is scary to me is that it has me questioning the bible and christianity now. Those are only two very small thoughts that have started these questions. It's a bit overwhelming, though, since I've gone the majority of my 25 years believing there was a Supreme Being, namely the christian one mentioned in the bible. Or, perhaps those accounts were not to be taken literally? I think I'll do some research and see if there is proof that Job and Abraham lived on earth. It's been a long time since I have thought about any of this. =)

  Thoughts?
• 

  shotgun

  My thoughts are, it never happened!

  Abraham..the man who pleaded with god to spare the supposedly wicked Sodomites willingly agrees to a human sacrafice ritual which God is supposed to detest...no wonder they all got mixed up at different times wondering what kind of worship was acceptable.

  Jesus said God never puts us to the test, did Jesus lie or did this event never happen the way it was written, much like many of the other events written in the old T.

  Check this out.....www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

  Warning though, check it out and you'll never look at the bible with same reverance as before!
• 

  Farkel

  There are a number of logical and ethical problems with the Abraham story. These problems prove that it was just an ancient myth probably written by the Jews centuries after the fact to justify their existence and their claims to land. Much of the Old Testament is like this.

  If God was omnipotent, he would have already known in advance that Abraham would pass the test, and since he is incapable of lying, he would have told "Satan" that Abraham would pass the test. Satan would have had no reason therefore to challenge God further.

  Furthermore, if God was omnipotent, Satan would most certainly know that. Knowing that, it would be stupid of him to challenge God in some sort of test for humans. If he did, God would just tell him the outcome should those tests be administered. Some humans would pass the tests. Some would not. It would be a waste of Satan's time to demand such tests, then.

  If God was not omnipotent, then there are things he does not know. If there are things he does not know, how can we trust him in what he says? He might be talking out of his Godly behind in some cases.

  Those who argue that God could somehow "turn off" his ability to see things in the future have to explain how God could do that, since he would have to KNOW what event in the future he was turning off. In order to do that, he would have to therefore give himself some sort of "amnesia" after he looked into the future and "turned off" his ability to see it. That notion is absurd.

  There ARE humans who make other humans kill loved ones to pass a "test." We call them "the Mafia."

  A careful study of the Bible, including the New Testament will clearly show that God mostly solves human problems in one consistent way: murder. That includes what happened to Jesus, his only begotten son.

  There must be a better way. But that would require a better God. Shouldn't be hard to find one, considering the track record of BibleGod(tm).

  Farkel
• 

  RunningMan

  Here is the truth of the story.

  Abraham is a fictional, or at best, a semi-fictional character. The story of the sacrifice was written by the priesthood in the very early days of the Jewish religion - at a time when some pockets of persons were still practicing human sacrifice (see Jephthah). The story is a parable, showing that God himself no longer wants humans to be sacrificed. Animals would suffice.

  It is not a lesson in obedience. It is a lesson in the evolution of religious thinking - a very positive step.

  However, those who believe in the literal truth of the old testament will be forever burdened with trying to justify and explain the actions of the God of Love.
• 

  mineralogist

  There is a part about true and false prophets in the bible. I found interesting what is said about a false prophet whos sign do occure:
  

  ***Rbi8 Deuteronomy 13:1-3 ***
  "In case a prophet or a dreamer of a dream arises in your midst and does give you a sign or a portent, 2 and the sign or the portent does come true of which he spoke to you, saying, ?Let us walk after other gods, whom you have not known, and let us serve them,? 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or to the dreamer of that dream, because Jehovah YOUR God is testing YOU to know whether YOU are loving Jehovah YOUR God with all YOUR heart and all YOUR soul.

  According to Jeremia 7:31 Jehova never thought of offerings of sons or daughters. If today someone would claim he heard a voice from heaven saying to kill his son we would say it was from demons.
• 

  Farkel

  : According to Jeremia 7:31 Jehova never thought of offerings of sons or daughters. If today someone would claim he heard a voice from heaven saying to kill his son we would say it was from demons.

  How do you explain away the fact that Jehovah did the very same thing to his own son, then? If you cut away all the excusogetics, the Bible plainly indicates that Jesus was sacrificed to appease the wrath of his Dad against sinners.

  Farkel
• 

  JCanon

  Hi Farkel, interesting concept, but...

  If God was omnipotent, he would have already known in advance that Abraham would pass the test, and since he is incapable of lying, he would have told "Satan" that Abraham would pass the test. Satan would have had no reason therefore to challenge God further.

  There is more invovled with simply Jehovah knowing. I would like you consider, for instance, how we teach our children. Take for example some math problems. Sure we know all the answers right? We could fill in the answers or tell our children what the answers are and they would know the answers. But do we do that? No. Because it's important the children learn to arrive at the answers themselves.

  Thus God might have known in Abraham's heart that he was willing to do this, but it makes a difference for Abraham to go through the process of actually experiencing the loss, psychologically. That's the difference. Telling Abraham I want you to symbolically sacrifice your son and I'll stop you at the last minute is a lot different than having Abraham think he was actually doing it.

  Thus again, your analogy reflects your usual blind-sidedness. Your like a thoroughbred race horse with blinders on. You see clearly the finish line ahead in your own lane but don't realize there are others lanes and other horses competing with you. You're practiced running around the track a zillion times and you think this is just the same thing. Technically, sure all you're doing is running around the same track as fast as you can, but it's a little different when you're alone running on the track trying to improve your time than when the actual race is in progress.

  Just some considerations. You have to get rid of the tunnel vision sometimes and equip with some peripheral vision to understand, especially, complex cultural and symbolic issues.

  JC
• 

  JCanon

  Abraham is a fictional, or at best, a semi-fictional character. The story of the sacrifice was written by the priesthood in the very early days of the Jewish religion - at a time when some pockets of persons were still practicing human sacrifice (see Jephthah). The story is a parable, showing that God himself no longer wants humans to be sacrificed. Animals would suffice.

  Interesting, but you can't confirm this. It's more likely it's your own fantasy that this is not real. The JEWS ARE REAL....Ask Barbara Streisand.

  JC
• 

  bigboi

  But dude, you don't make up math answers out of the clear blue sky. THere is a certain amount of knowledge you have to have in order to come to an answer. It's not at all like being omnipotent, is it?

  These kinds of threads make me nauseous.
• 

  Farkel

  BibleMan,

  : Interesting, but you can't confirm this.

  Uh, it's the one who makes a claim that has the burden of proving that claim, NOT the one who disputes the claim. So where is PROOF that Abraham actually existed and actually was told by God to sacrifice his son?

  The Bible ain't proof. Any book that claims there were talking snakes and donkeys cannot be trusted.

  Farkel