by Aalena 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Aalena,
have you seen the Indiana Jones movie "The Holy Grail" - that canyon that he steps out into?
For some, "fear of God" is the adventure enjoyed.
In the story, didn't supernatural stuff already happen in his life, like his ninety year old wife having a baby ?
Wouldn't he 'know' ? He believed against hope - i t's an Adventure
If God was omnipotent, he would have already known in advance that Abraham would pass the test
Farkel, you are talking about omniscient ............ knowing all things. God is omnipotent (having the POWER to do all things) but having the power to control things or accomplish things or MAKE things happen doesn't ever settle questions about loyalty or love.
If we pretend its a real story, even if God was omniscient and knew the outcome, the other people are not omniscient and Abraham was able to realize how much he loved his God. The story shows that even Isaac was willing to submit himself and of course, the spirit creatures were able to witness this loyalty.
According to the WT, God is omniscient but chooses not use this ability. They liken it to a radio station that he does not tune in to.
For me, I have a daughter, she was long awaited, I don't know how Abraham could have done this.........if he succeeded then would we liken him to the women in Texas who killed their kids cuz God told them. Heck, according to the Bible, he would have done it if an angel had not intervened. I don't understand how he was listening to God but these women were listening to demons?
Having a wedding to shoot last weekend and like... 3 papers to write I haven't gotten a chance to return! I see more opinions than anything that proves beyond a doubt that Abramam was real or a parable or just a fluke. I've yet to check out Shotgun's link yet, but it sounds interesting=) Once I've researched things a bit on my own I'll go there to see if anyone collaborates my findings!
Honestly, I've been leaning towards the thoughts of the bible NOT being real. However, I DO know that the WTBTS tends to take a number of things EXTREMELY literal-- well, when I was growing up they did. It is very possible that *THEY* have the tunnel vision. One thing that always turned me from them is their incapicty to evolve as human beings because of their fears of turning away from God. I wish they would realize that doesn't mean losing God, only understanding the world and everything in it better! I didn't understand that so eloquently while I was in the religion, but now it's much easier to articulate those thoughts=)
JC Cannon,
Clarify your thoughts on Jehovah asking Abraham to symbolically sacrifice his son? I think maybe you used the word symbolically in the wrong place there and I'm reading it incorrectly. I'll very simply and in NO way 100% accurately to the text go through the process of this proposed "sacrifice." It doesn't have to be word for word to understand where I am coming from-- you just need to understand the concept I'm throwing out there:
1. Jehovah God tells Abraham that he wishes him to go to the top of a mountain or side of a hill... and sacrifice his son.
2. Abraham does what is asked of him because... why? Because God knows holiness. He creates holiness. Things are holy because he says they are and no one is to questions this. (Euthyphro's(I think that is his name) ideas on the Greek gods in Athens about 500 years BC when he brought Socrates to trial for religous heracy and corrupting the youth of athens)
3. What is more-- HIS SON goes along with it?? What is happening with his son? One they get to the place Abraham is to sacrifice him and the rituals begin, I think even someone that isn't the sharpest tool in the shed would understand he was about to die. Why do I bring this up? Because humans generally FIGHT TO LIVE when they are faced with kill or be killed. We do not give up too easily. Especially in this case... with a father starting to sacrifice his son. Again, this brings up the point about interpreting this account to mean that God appoints what is Holy(moral) and his subjects blindly follow.
4. Jehovah tells Abraham he was only testing his loyalty. Is Abraham to be thankful at this point?? Would YOU be thankful at this point? I for one, would never have been on that mountain and my son would have been going about his daily business... but seriously: What credibility would a god retain if he asked his subjects to do something like this? Today... do we believe in Human Sacrifice? How many Human sacrifice do you remember or have recently read about in the bible? It seems very consistent that humankind then and now would be EXTREMELY disturbed if something like this was required of them--- or ARE extrememly disturbed if they think it's ok.
Just what was Jehovah testing if he already "knew"? Just what confidence did Abraham lack or what lesson did he need to learn by this that was learned? I fail to see any positives come out of this account for ANYONE involved.
Also, math problems you use as an example are absolute. Meaning, one starts with an equation and it produces an answer, and only one answer, every time. Whether the equation produces a whole number, a negative number, a fraction, an infinate or an undefined... it is the same number one gets every time. You can't really relate subjective philosophy and morals(according to the bible God gives us the mental capacity to chose answers for ourselves-- each related to certain consequences both good and bad) to something that is absolute and unaffected by opinion or change.
