Elders Meeting

by New Castles 65 Replies latest jw experiences

wednesday

TalTexan,
that may work for u, but not everyone is able to deal with these nazis. It is one thing to tell new castles what u would do, and why, but to try and instill guilt b/c somone wants to fade not be DF or DA-well that is not ok.We are all entitled to our opinions here, and if it works for u-more power to u. I can tell u one thing however, they have seen all those reams of "proofs" before and will just DF u for being an apostate. If that is ok with u, great. But it is not ok for everyone. They have heard it all before and and most likely will not listen to u. If it will make u feel better, do it. If u have nothing to lose-do it. But don't encourge others, who may have something to lose to do something this drastic.
weds
Undaunted Danny

KANGAROO COURTS
a.k.a. GESTAPO TACTICS:
A few minutes, from my final judicial hearing.. 6 vs.1
A glossary of the watchtower's canon of ethics..Also known as; 'approved operating procedure' [ A.O.P.]
It's all about control the; Control Freaks with a Mean Streak!
Jehovahspeak=doublespeak. Carefully crafted cult rhetoric..JWessse..The articulator manipulators..
It's plain old: mealy mouthing, innuendo / deception / flim-flam / hoodwink / bamboozle / fraud / mind games / confidence game / blowing smoke and bluster / pushing your buttons....
Dumb and dumber,the "dumb-down take down".
Your foe feigns ignorance..This is a Theocratic warfare tactic, where after prayer to god..The elder sitting in judgement of you,LIES and asserts he doesn't have a clue about what you are talking about...Also known as, "selective alzheimers".
The notorious,"TWO WITNESS TAKEDOWN" this absurdity,is an over extension of; 2 Corn. 13:1....It is a subterfuge, ruse so the cult charlatans can selectively ignore evidence at their whim...
The ambush, surprise and swarm technique , a.k.a.'ambush journalism'.{perfected by Mike Wallace of 60 minutes}..This ploy is used by wolf pack predators to quarry their prey by confusion and isolation..This strong arm tactic is like the lions loud roar to 'unhinge' and intimidate their prey.
The above is also known as the ,"gang bang". or 3rd degree interrogation tactic.
The use of a ,'straw man' as the,'fall guy' to divert attention from the real issue at hand, and to try to erode an otherwise valid argument.This is a variation of the age old ,drawing of a red herring, diversionary tactic..
Stonewalling,,sandbagging,,foot dragging,,pigeonholing,,suppression of crucial evidence,under the guise of the ubiquitous ,'confidentiality clause'.
Threatbaiting ,which is to instill a presumptuous pretext of guilt,that you are a malefactor.Example:..."if you ever hit my mother, I will surely press charges against you.."
Malicious 3rd degree style interrogation tactics with abuse recriminations.
The following is an elder specialty:
This goodie must flow right down from the ivory tower legal whores. [ever wonder what elders learn when they go off to their exclusive elder seminars??} It's the, deflection "JEOPARDY GAME"!.
Framing false accusations in the form of a QUESTION..Example,"Brother Haszard we were "asked" if you were a faggot? When we were "asked" if you were a faggot.We said no!.
This sleazy tactic is a subterfuge to isolate them from court depositions.{so you can't actually pin them down on their say-so's.This is just a variation of the age old ,'loaded question' or rhetorical question..
Oh, and let's not omit the passive/aggressive good cop bad cop routine.
The legalese, AD HOMINEM attack {mud slinging] see my home page. www.DannyHaszard.com
Godlessness in the last days @ 2 timothy 3:1-9,described by St. Paul...
"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days, people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive,.....ungrateful, unholy, without love, unyielding, unforgiving, slanderous, without self control, brutal, not lovers of good, treacherous, rash, conceited,....'having a form of godliness but denying it's power'....Men who worm their way into your homes....swayed by all kinds of evil desires....men of depraved minds who reject the truth...
Golly,my gosh!..It sounds like, 'show time' at one of my elders meetings!
The flunky elders from the Rockland Massachusetts Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses Summer street Rockland Massachusetts USA. 02370
{ footnote: NOTHING I post is made up }
TallTexan

Please don't get me wrong. I wasn't trying to instill guilt or anything of that nature. I totally respect however each person wants to handle it. My point was, if it's simply an intimidation factor, don't give in. Believe me, I understand how much some people stand to lose. My entire immediate and extended families are still very active in the 'troof'. When I make my move, it will be devastating to me personally, but I can't live a 'lie', even if I am inactive. I judge no one. For most, it's much easier to simply fade away, and I totally respect that view too. I think you took my suggestion as a demand, or an intolerant viewpoint of how someone else wishes to handle the situation. That's simply not the case. My goal is not to change the world, the WTS, or anything else. I just hate abuses of power and even if me and my 'proof' make not one iota of difference (and I know it won't), I'll still feel better for saying my piece and telling them to kiss my ass...lol. Believe me, I realize that most people are not nearly as confrontational as I am (yes, I'm saying that I can be an a-hole at times...lol). Anyway, I wasn't trying to be offensive or pushy, just giving thoughts on how I would handle it.
Peace, out!
simplesally

I never thought about the 3 or 6 against 1 before, but that's so true. They will never meet with you one on one.
Sassy

some people want to meet with the elders and have their say.. but to be honest, do you ever get any where? no.. now if it makes you feel better.. then go for it..
the point is what do you want to achieve.. if you want to go back into a fade.. then either back out of the meeting or if you go, be evasive with your answers or they will DA you..
for me.. I won't bother going if asked.. why?
the only reason I would go is if I still believed in it.. then I would go because I wanted to 'cleanse my soul', repent, get my discipline so I still have a chance for everlasting life and being a JW..
but since I don't believe that, why would I waste any more of my time talking to them? I've already given them more than I care to
95stormfront

Go in and tell them how you really feel. It may not be pleasant, but at least they'll know where you stand. And if they don't like it, f--- 'em...oh...and as Danny said, threaten to sue....lol

Well....speaking for myself, that is exactly what I did when they came to my house.
Setting the Scene:
My wife is outside doing the yard and I turn the corner by the house and see this strange car parked in front of my house. It's da "brutha's, and they're talking to the wife. As I pull into my driveway, they finish their conversation with her and walk over to talk to me. After the requisite "bullshit" smalltalk they try and get right to the point, namely, what's my schedule like and what can they do....how can they help me get back to the meetings. I flat out told them that I was not interested in going back to meetings and that I was perfectly happy with the way my life was going and progressing.
After their stunned "deer in the headlights" silence, they recover and start going on about how I'll always be welcomed to come back and how they are the encouraging sort. I tell them I know, and that I get "encouragement" from my wife all the time and that when I need help with my spirituality, I'll be sure to search out those I think can help me.
All of this was out of earshot of my wife, but i think they got the point. They thanked me for talking to them and left me standing there thinking damn, I didn't get to shake hands or get a small prayer from either of them.
I guess, since they don't consider me a "brutha" anymore, I'm not worthy.
johnny cip

i like tall texan ,95 storms, and danny's tactics. and if your ready blow them right out of the box. a no holds barred free for all. if not for personnal reasons,and you need to be low key , cancel tell them you will be coming around to the hall when you have time! and if you need their help you will call them right away. and let them know you have been studing. (just don't tell them what) . either way you can hold your own and gain respect at the same time. you will be fine. just stand tall.... best wishes john
Rabbit

New Castles,
I would advise you to not meet with them either. They will gang up on you with different personalities, coming from different angles. It's like dealing with 3 prosecuting attorneys and you having no right to a lawyer yourself.
If you say anything wrong, according to their well-tuned JW ears, they will pick up on it. If they "got up on the wrong side of the bed that day," or feeling generous or not -- is a throw of the dice !
If you haven't already read them...read "ShotGun's" recorded accounts of his encounters with the Elders.
Lot's of luck.
TallTexan,
I agree with Wednesday, in your first post it did sound exactly like she said, it was like we should feel a sense of 'guilt' if we fade or don't confront them -- head-on.
Your 2nd post tho', imo, finished explaining your thoughts. I do not mean to speak for Wednesday, but, we have seen some very aggressive posters here (well-meaning) almost demand that we 'throw our beliefs into the Elders faces' and our relatives, too.
I have been fading for 7 years, I had an un-scriptural divorce forced upon me...then I remarried, to a non-witness several years later, causing a big uproar with JW relatives. Most of us have a lot of relatives that are JW's which puts us (and them) in a Catch-22 position...we have a lot to lose and if they appear to 'go along' with us they're collective butts are on the Elders chopping block. It goes on up thru the ranks to CO's & DO', too, all the way to the GB. If f a d i n g is the best way for us, NOBODY has a right to deride us.
BTW, you did not do that...what you said, sorta hit a nerve...you are new here and would not have seen some of these posts I was referring to. Some of those literally called us f a d e r s... "cowards" and "chicken" for not "doing as I do." Everyone here has their own circumstances and abilities to deal with the "Elders" and must respect everyone elses' choices.
Any advice tho' is always appreciated and getting a broad spectrum of ideas about a situation -- helps us make our personal decisions,
Thats what I love about this place...
wednesday

TallTexaan,
Thank u for adding to your original post.
and Rabbit, u expressed what i was trying to say very well.
Each one of us has to deal with our own life and the circumstances we find ourselves in. Some of us have a lot of family in the ORG, some are married to JWS, (like being married to the mob .lol) others, have reams of friends that provide a lot of social support for them. At one time i might have said exactly what u did, but i have learned to temper my response b/c i do not walk in your shoes. If u follow my advice, can u deal with the consequences that will follow? DA and DF are powerful tools, that is why JWS use them. They work .Shunning works many times. People are so loney they return. Also, one never knows the mental state of the person they are giving advice to. Depressed people are often not able to make rational decisions. The posts i enjoy the most are the ones that lay out the consequences of this or that action.
I myself will not meet with a group of elders, b/c it is giving power to them, power thay do not deserve. I will make up any excuse not to meet and stall. I will not directly confront them, b/c i am not able to deal wth the outcome- DF. For the most part, after a while, they will usually leave u alone. Unless u have been very prominent, then all bets are off.
It is good to get a variety of opinions about how to handle situations. I read all opinions and then work with the one that i feel i can handle.
Rabbit is correct, someotimes posters will try and instill a sense of "if u really were an xjw, u would tell them off and not live a lie". If that works for u, great, it does not work for me. I do not feel i'm living a lie-i do not attend, and they do not have any right to know anything about my life. By saying we are living a lie- it implies they have a right to tell us how to live, or i owe them a report on my life. I owe them nothing
I enjoyed your opening post TT, hope u stay around. It takes all kind of approaches; .
Rabbit

Wednesday:
Some of us have a lot of family in the ORG, some are married to JWS, (like being married to the mob .lol)

Yeah, it is like the 'mob' sometimes...you can't walk away on your own terms. Reminds me of the song "Hotel California," "You can check out any time you like...but, you can n e v e r leave..."
TallTexan, Welcome to the forum by the way...I missed your first post. I'm a Texan too, just not real TALL, ha-ha!
Sincerely, Rabbit

Elders Meeting

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