by metatron 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Schizm
But you must admit that the vast majority of persons who do Birthdays do it for the sake of having FUN.
The hearts of 'worldly' people are predominantly set on having FUN. The Bible recommends that our hearts be in the "house of mourning,"
I see. Actually, i wonder if you aren't having a bit of fun w us
S
Don't forget though that the prohibitions mentioned at Acts 15 were not meant to be an all-inclusive list of prohibitions but simply those that related to the issue before that first Jerusalem council.
Correctamundo Ozmeister,
Just as Paul mentioned not to eat meat on one occation so as not to stumble certain "jews", he later said if one wants to eat meat then he may do so. The dubs still live in the O.T. as 80% or more of the scriptures they use in their articles testify.
Gumby
I see. Actually, i wonder if you aren't having a bit of fun w usS
"Us" who, Satan? You and the demons?
.
Waves at Gumby,
Remember when I made you smile at Vastards,
OK, I am so over this fun stuff. I am gone.Forever, and you will miss me when I'm gone.
And OBTW Arrow, give me your dates and you are so here for the Sept. thingy......;)
Gosh it's only a monday...........
Waves at Gumby,Remember when I made you smile at Vastards,
OK, I am so over this fun stuff. I am gone.Forever, and you will miss me when I'm gone.
Jesus woman.......I told you to lay off them damn mushrooms!!!
Where you goin? And........quit copying that brooks and dunn song, "your gonna miss me when I'm gone". Im onto your arse!
*shakes finger*
Gumbong
I think the BORG deliberately discourages anything that focuses attention on the individual rather than on the "collective".
In 1984 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania turned 100 years old.
They had a special Centennial Meeting to go over the accomplishments of the last 100 years.
Birthday celebrations for individual's...no! But, for the 100th birthday of the WTS...Yes!
A 100th Birthday Celebration for the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society!
From the WT Library 2003 CD:
to the Centennial Meeting of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of PennsylvaniaWelcome
This annual meeting, which also marks the 100th anniversary of the Watch Tower Society, provides an opportunity of reviewing how well the Society has fulfilled its purpose, and of looking ahead to the work yet to be done.
In Bible times the locations of important happenings were often marked as reminders of such events and their significance. Many of the activities of Jehovah?s Witnesses today had their beginnings in the original class, or congregation, of Bible Students here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. It is thus appropriate that the 100th anniversary of the Watch Tower Society be held in this city, and that we use the opportunity to reflect on what has taken place during the last 100 years with benefit to the work ahead.
VM44,
That was an anniversary, not a birthday.
Gumby
This was something that never rang true with me either. The explanations that were given were at best wishy washy and at worst just plain weird.
I did some research myself on Birthdays, (especially in line with the "Pinata" case recently!) and I have to admit I was quite surprised with what I found.
I have pasted the article here (well I'm going to try and paste it here!):
The German periodical "Schwäbische Zeitung" (magazine supplement Zeit und Welt) of April 3/4, 1981 on page 4 stated: "The various customs with which people today celebrate their birthdays have a long history. Their origins lie in the realm of magic and religion. The customs of offering congratulations, presenting gifts and celebrating - complete with lighted candles - in ancient times were meant to protect the birthday celebrant from the demons and to ensure his security for the coming year. . . . Down to the fourth century Christianity rejected the birthday celebration as a pagan custom."
The book The Lore of Birthdays (New York, 1952) by Ralph and Adelin Linton, on pages 8, 18-20 had this to say: "The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born.
The Romans also subscribed to this idea. . . . This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint. . . . The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . . Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune"
This same book, on page 20, also had this to say about the traditional greeting of 'Happy Birthday': "Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday. . . . originally the idea was rooted in magic. The working of spells for good and evil is the chief usage of witchcraft. One is especially susceptible to such spells on his birthday, as one's personal spirits are about at the time. . . . Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day."
And Horst Fuhrmann, professor of medieval history at the University of Regensburg, made this comment about birthdays: "The birthday celebration was in honor of one's guardian angel or god, whose altar was decorated with flowers and wreaths; sacrifices were offered to the god of festival, friends offered congratulations and brought gifts." Furthermore, he stated in the German newspaper "Süddeutschen Zeitung": "Great prominence was given the birthday parties held for the emperor, replete with parades, public banquets, circus plays, and the hunting of animals: spectacles disgusting to the [early] Christians."
Wow" It worked!
Anyway, why don't they use this kind of information instead of the usual "Bad light" theory. I'm inclined to agree with them (heaven help me!) on this principle merely because it's quite plainly steeped in paganism and being a Christian the two don't marry together for me.
But surely if they were to use this line of reasoning then it would stand up a bit more under scrutiny (not to mention, the no doubt, hundreds of JW's who can't quite understand why birthdays are wrong but follow the rule anyway whilst secretly doubting!)
Anyway, that's my two penny worth.
All the best
Laurelin
Anyway, why don't they use this kind of information instead of the usual "Bad light" theory. I'm inclined to agree with them (heaven help me!) on this principle merely because it's quite plainly steeped in paganism and being a Christian the two don't marry together for me.
They used to use the pagan theory for Birthdays. It was a combination of the two bad examples in the Bible and the pagan connection.
Someone has mentioned something to the effect that the WTS, since making a bigger impact in Mexico, is trying to make it easier for people there to accept "the Truth(tm)". The pinata thing is very popular in parts of Mexico(and the US too). To un-demonize pinatas they used their new theory that if a certain practice no longer has pagan connection, influence or is thought of as pagan, then it doesn't fall under practices that would bring sanctions from the WTS. Of course, it didn't take some long to realize that birthdays fall under the same reasoning. Maybe there were pagan connections way back when, but not now. Now it's just a fun time. Why are there sanctions against it? The simple, stupid WTS answer: Pinatas aren't mentioned in the Bible and the only birthday parties mentioned ended in death. So, obviously God put those examples in there to let us know about his displeasure in our celebrating them.
I still say that if birthdays are such a big deal to God, he would have put it in plain Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek that birthdays are bad, mmmkay?
Undercover;
Someone has mentioned something to the effect that the WTS, since making a bigger impact in Mexico, is trying to make it easier for people there to accept "the Truth(tm)".
To un-demonize pinatas they used their new theory that if a certain practice no longer has pagan connection, influence or is thought of as pagan, then it doesn't fall under practices that would bring sanctions from the WTS. Of course, it didn't take some long to realize that birthdays fall under the same reasoning.
They, to my thinking, have certainly shot themselves in the foot with their reply on the Pinatas. You're right that by following that line of thinking Birthdays is fine too.
In my own opinion though, I feel happier staying away from anything that has roots in paganism. I'm only commenting on myself and am not in any way trying to enforce my views on others. I've always been a bit wary of demon control (due to bad experiences as a child) and because of this I tend to keep away from anything that is linked with witchcraft. But like I said that's my viewpoint and I wouldn't dream of knocking anyone who wants to celebrate their birthday, with or without a Pinata.
Out of interest, do you have any idea why they don't use the pagan line anymore? It's been awhile since I really kept up with their reasonings but I don't recal hearing this as a child either. (or maybe I just wasn't listening, which is probably the case. )
