9/11(Film) - Freedom burning alright

by catchthis 102 Replies latest social entertainment

  • CaptainSchmideo
    CaptainSchmideo

    Saw it 4:30 PM on a Friday, it was packed! Not with Young Adult radicals either! It was definitely an older bunch, even elderly. My state is weird; majority Democrat, but always carries the Republican Candidate in every election. Maybe this year will be different.

    There was a scene at a Senior's center where a very plain speaking lady pretty much summed up what liars Bush and his cronies are. When you lose the old folks as your constituency, and you are supposed to be the "conservative candidate", you gotta know you're doing something wrong!

    The scenes of dead children really got to me (I have two little ones). The scenes with Lila were astounding cinema. My heart aches for her, and for the others who are losing sons, daughters, moms and dads.

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hi Capt. S,

    Lila was very moving and brought tears to my eyes, but the one that started the tears flowing was the Iraqi woman wailing "God, save us from them!!" So sad and to realize my country is "them." And GW just leans on the lectern and smirks.

    Pat

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Damn,

    I have read 'Dude, Where's my Country" and cant wait to see this movie. I'm glad it is getting a good response.

    Jst2laws

  • Simon
    Simon

    That was a good review ... thanks for posting it. I have to wait till Jul 9 before I can see it.

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    I saw the movie last night and was saddened and very, very angry. Although I fully realize that it was not balanced journalism and that there is "another side to the story" I still cannot possibly imagine that Bush and Co. are not at least a tad bit evil. (Evil -- I choose that word carefully)

    B.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    :I saw the movie last night and was saddened and very, very angry.


    What was interesting to me is that I found myself not any more angry at Bush, I've known what he's about for a while, but at the media. The "fourth estate" has been sitting on it's ass feeding America fluff while the world catches fire. They've givin in to the pressure to lay off one side or the other (iow, not report the ugly stuff) because Americans have gotten so soft, especially in the brain, that they imagine anything too negative must not be "fair and balanceed". Unmitigated horseshit!

  • Daga
    Daga



    MOORE'S THE PITY

    By JONATHAN FOREMAN
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    June 23, 2004 -- For all its clever slickness, Michael Moore's "Fahren heit 9/11" does not stack up to such brilliant but evil art as Leni Riefenstahl's propaganda films for Hitler. But it is art in the sense that any piece of effective political propaganda ? Julius Streicher's "Der Sturmer" magazine, the famous Che poster from Alberto Korda's photo, even the anti-Goldwater mushroom-cloud TV ad put out by LBJ ? can be taken as art.

    Alert critics will doubtless point out its artistic flaws. For example, its most moving sequence ? which features audio from the World Trade Center attacks played over a black screen ? is a direct ripoff of Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu's 11-minute segment in the 2003 film "9/11/01"

    What makes "Fahrenheit 9/11" notable is that feature-length movie-house agitprop is a relatively rare and new thing, and that so far it has been treated (for instance by the Cannes Film Festival jury) as something more than the clever (if breathtakingly sleazy) political propaganda that it is.

    And the film does offer some valuable lessons for everyone ? though not in its topics: 9/11, Osama bin Laden, Iraq, the "stolen" 2000 election, the Bush administration's fondness for the Saudis, the U.S. armed forces' supposed recruiting from the "starving" unemployed masses or any of the mutually exclusive conspiracy theories the movie puts forward.

    No, the lessons of "Fahrenheit 9/11" have to do with the general degradation of our political discourse, the gross dishonesty of our most feted "documentary" filmmaker and with what Michael Moore's super-popularity in Hollywood and France adds to what we already know about the ignorance and intellectual poverty of the movie industry and the pathetic, spiteful hostility of our French "allies."

    That said, the Bush administration might want to consider how the Department of Homeland Security's silly color-coded terror alerts play neatly into the hands of its most paranoid or devious opponents (especially when those alerts coincide with adverse poll results).

    And the "forgotten" soldiers who have lost arms and legs in the Iraq and Afghan wars (there's some moving footage of amputees) should neither be forgotten nor remembered only by people like Moore, who would use that suffering for their own ends.

    But you certainly don't have to be a fan of Bush or his policies to be offended by "Fahrenheit 9/11" lies, half-lies and distortions, or by Moore's shockingly low expectations of his audience:

    * Moore's favorite anti-administration interviewee is former National Security Council aide Richard Clarke. Yet the film never mentions that it was Clarke who gave the order to spirit the bin Laden family out of America immediately after 9/11. Moore makes much of this mystery; why didn't he ask Clarke about it ?

    * At one point of the film, he portrays GIs as moronic savages who work themselves up with music before setting out to kill. Later, he depicts them as proletarian victims of a cynical ruling class, who deserve sympathy and honor for their sacrifice.

    * The film's amusing (if bordering on racist) Saudi-bashing sequences rely for their effect on the audience having forgotten that President Bill Clinton was every bit as friendly with Prince Bandar (or "Bandar Bush," as Moore calls him) and the Saudi monarchy as his successor. In general, the movie is packed with points that Moore assumes his audience will never check, or are either lies or cleverly hedged half-lies:

    * Moore says that the Saudis have paid the Bush family $1.4 billion. But wait ?the Bushes aren't billionaires. If you watch the film a second time you'll note Moore saying that they paid $1.4 billion to the Bush family and (added very quietly and quickly) its friends and associates.

    * Moore asserts that the Afghan war was fought only to enable the Unocal company to build a pipeline. In fact, Unocal dropped that idea back in August 1998. Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan are looking at the idea now, but nothing has come of it so far, and in any case Unocal has nothing to do with it.

    * In a "congressmen with no kids at war" stunt, Moore claims that no one in Congress has a son or daughter fighting in America's armed services, then approaches several congressmen in the street and asks them to sign up and send their kids to Iraq. His claim would certainly surprise Sgt. Brooks Johnson of the 101st Airborne, the son of Sen. Tim Johnson (D-S.D.). And for that matter the active-duty sons of Sen. Joseph Biden and Attorney General John Ashcroft, among others.

    The most offensive sequence in "Fahrenheit 9/11"'s long two hours lasts only a few minutes. It's Moore's file-footage depiction of happy Iraq before the Americans began their supposedly pointless invasion. You see men sitting in cafes, kids flying kites, women shopping. Cut to bombs exploding at night.

    What Moore presumably doesn't know, or simply doesn't care about, is that the building you see being blown up is the Iraqi Ministry of Defense in Baghdad. Not many children flew kites there. It was in a part of the city that ordinary Iraqis weren't allowed to visit ? on pain of death.

    And if Moore weren't a (left-wing) version of the fat, bigoted, ignorant Americans his European friends love to mock, he'd know that prewar Iraq was ruled by a regime that had forced a sixth of its population into fearful exile, that hanged dissidents (real dissidents, not people like Susan Sontag and Tim Robbins) from meathooks and tortured them with blowtorches, and filled thousands of mass graves with the bodies of its massacred citizens.

    Yes, children played, women shopped and men sat in cafes while that stuff went on ? just as people did all those normal things in Somoza's Nicaragua, Duvalier's Haiti and for that matter Nazi Germany, and as they do just about everywhere, including in Iraq today.

    Moore has defended deliberate inaccuracies in his prior films by claiming that satirists don't have to tell the exact truth. Fair enough. But if you take the lies, half-lies and distortions out "Fahrenheit 9/11," there isn't much of anything left.

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  • observador
    observador

    I saw the movie too and would strongly recommend you to do the same, no matter what side of the aisle you are in.

    If you expect Moore to bash only G.W.Bush, you'll be surprised. Although GWB is the most pounded, you'll see him attack the media, the military (lightly), congress (lightly), the Saudis, even the democrats.

    I am not a democrat nor a republican, but one thing I can tell you: I never saw a movie that people would applaud at the end and would stay seated for a little while as if it was too short, even though it is almost 2 hours long.

    Michael Moore is fat, ugly, ill-shaved... but he's a heck of a filmmaker. How can a guy with a camera and the help of a few other people produce a documentary that makes 8 million dolars in its opening day alone? He's competent!

    Of course this is my opinion. See this movie and form your own.

    Observador.

  • Colonel Kurtz
    Colonel Kurtz

    First time poster. Please people, just as some of you have done with the WatchTower Bible & Tract Society and Jehovah's Witnesses, RESEARCH WHO YOU ARE DEALING WITH! Michael Moore is known for his lies and deceptive filming. Here are some great places to start: http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/ http://www.moorewatch.com/ http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/ http://moorelies.com/ Michael Moore talks about the Bush Administration being War Profiteers, but look at what he's actually doing? Also notice that Michael Moore never went to Iraq to film the scenes in the movie. Too much of a chicken. He just over-dubbed the audio. He knows that if he showed up in front of US Soldiers, they would beat the lard of his behind. (note: Michael Moore pleaded to have terrorists in Iraq kill more US and British troops.) Of, can't forget how he CHARGED the families of the victims to see Bowling for Columbine, when the movie was supposed to be made to honor the memory of those who died ($$$$$$). The kids who were injured he USED in the movie don't support him, now that they found out how MM USED them in the film incorrectly. Moore is nobody but a person who turns tragady into dollars. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Bush 2004

  • Cassiline
    Cassiline
    Also notice that Michael Moore never went to Iraq to film the scenes in the movie. Too much of a chicken. He just over-dubbed the audio.

    Welcome KK!

    Do one of your links supprt this claim? As I have heard this before. I can't commet on the movie yet, because I have not seen it. I have heard more from those who support the movie/moore than those who hate/dislike Moore. I do not want to hate anyone. I only want the facts then I will hopefully see the movie without any preconcieved notions.

    Welcome again

    Cassi

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