Wow, I have never seen such Lies and Made-Up Facts!!!!
I am talking about the New York Post review (posted above).
I could take it apart point-by-point, but it's late and I'm tired.
So let me just attack one point and leave it to others to do more.
The movie did NOT say that "no" Senators had children in the military -- despite what the New York Post said. The Moore narrative said that "only one" Senator had a child in the Services. The NYPost lies that Moore said "none" and then proceeds to list all of THREE -- and one of them (Ashcroft) is not a Senator. Taking the remaining list of two as correct, it is very close to one and does not change Moore's basic point: the lawmakers are sending "other peoples children" to war, but their own children are grossly underrepresented in this service.
Oh, and as for whether or not Moore went to Iraq: is that really important? Personally I did not think that Moore went to Iraq (based on the film), and never got that impression -- nor did I think that they portrayed that impression. But is this issue really important? Journalists working on big stories rely on stock footage and satellite film crews all the time. Last year, the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) show The Fifth Estate did a show on some of the same topics: W Bush's financial connection to Saudi money; the Carlye group; Saudi jet leaving Sept 13 2001 when everyone else is grounded and when they might have valuable information. But: no one was stupid enough to say "Hey, host BOB MCKEOWN has never even been to Iraq!!! Let's ignore the show because Bob never went to Iraq!"
OK, that is enough logic and reason for now.
BTW, I saw the 12:40 Matinee, and I estimate seats were 70% filled! There seems to be a lot of "buzz" for this film.
~Quotes of the "I Liked This Film The First Time I Saw It -- When It Was Called The Fifth Estate" class
9/11(Film) - Freedom burning alright
by catchthis 102 Replies latest social entertainment
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Quotes
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talesin
Journalists working on big stories rely on stock footage and satellite film crews all the time. Last year, the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) show The Fifth Estate did a show on some of the same topics: W Bush's financial connection to Saudi money; the Carlye group; Saudi jet leaving Sept 13 2001 when everyone else is grounded and when they might have valuable information. But: no one was stupid enough to say "Hey, host BOB MCKEOWN has never even been to Iraq!!! Let's ignore the show because Bob never went to Iraq!"
Gotta love that Canadian logic! Thank you, Quotes. ;)
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Colonel Kurtz
I apoligize for my formatting.
The way this web site's forum is setup, I'm having a hard time knowing which code to use. Is there a tutorial anywhere.
My political posts are not ment to flame, or pi** people off.
I get most of my news from blogs. There are Iraqi bloggers in Iraq telling what's going on, yet the media never report it. That's how the media is. They only report the bad. That draws viewers. They admit to this. And some people beleive that's all their is going on. -
frenchbabyface
Colonel ? ... again : Colonel ? (you want and beg for this name do you ?) ... yeah I see where you come from :
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exjdub
First things first: Welcome Colonel! Hope you enjoy the forum.
As I mentioned earlier I saw the film and enjoyed it. As I predicted in my first post on this thread, the opposition to Moore got caught up on editing, and interestingly, whether he went to Iraq or not. I repeat my question: Did the things that Moore present really happen? Editing creatively may or may not be desirable, depending on your perspective, but are there ties between Bin Ladens and the companies that GW Bush ran and/or owned? Is Halliburton getting unfair competetive advantage because of Dick Cheney?
These are just a few questions, but I am sure you get the point. If people want to discredit MM quit picking on his editing or whether or not he went to Iraq. Pick on the HUGE allegations that he has made in connection with Bush and Co. Don't strain out the gnat and gulp down the camel (sorry...a little dub comes out now and then).
Interesting note: My daughter's boyfriend has never been a dub, but has never voted. My daughter, who is very involved with politics, has begged him to vote to no avail. However, after he saw the movie, he turned to my daughter and said: "That's it, now I'm voting." He is registering on Monday and he said that he is voting for Kerry. I wonder how many people are going to be similarly moved after seeing Farenheit 911?
exjdub
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Colonel Kurtz
<quote>Do one of your links supprt this claim?</quote>
Yes, give me time and I will find it.
Basically it goes like this:
On Michael Moores website back in March, he said he's been in the USA for a while editting/putting the finishing touched on the film F-911. On this update on his web page he says he cant finish the film entirely yet because his film crew has not returned yet from Iraq after filming the Iraq footage he wanted in the movie.
<quote>Wow, I have never seen such Lies and Made-Up Facts!!!!
I am talking about the New York Post review (posted above).
I could take it apart point-by-point, but it's late and I'm tired.</quote>
Well, when you wake up, be sure to prove that you can "take it apart point-by-point". Because if not, you're not being honest.
<quote>The movie did NOT say that "no" Senators had children in the military -- despite what the New York Post said. The Moore narrative said that "only one" Senator had a child in the Services. The NYPost lies that Moore said "none" and then proceeds to list all of THREE -- and one of them (Ashcroft) is not a Senator. Taking the remaining list of two as correct, it is very close to one and does not change Moore's basic point: the lawmakers are sending "other peoples children" to war, but their own children are grossly underrepresented in this service.</quote>
You know that for a fact, right?
Do you know for a fact how many politicians have sons/daughters in the military? Or do you just believe what Michael Moore told you?
<quote>Oh, and as for whether or not Moore went to Iraq: is that really important? Personally I did not think that Moore went to Iraq (based on the film), and never got that impression -- nor did I think that they portrayed that impression. But is this issue really important?</quote>
It is VERY important that he was there to film it.
Why? Because he's time and time again giving the impression in his speeches and public apperances that protestors/peace-activists/and-people-like-Moore (Bush Haters and those who publicly speak out against the US's actions in Iraq) won't be harmed by the "minutemen" in Iraq. To people like Moore (and it seems people like you for that matter) think Iraq is and always has been a "sovereign nation" filled with peace loving people and the "revolutionaries" (again, Moores words) would never harm an outsider who is apparently on their side. WHEN IT HAS BE PROVEN THAT EVEN PEACE ACTIVISTS HAVE BEEN TAKEN HOSTAGE AND KILLED. They are beheading people over there! They are killing civilian contractors who are building schools and running electrical power lines. You know, actually HELPING PEOPLE. You think Moore would risk his life and not pay someone else to do it?
It shows that HE DOESN'T BELIEVE HIS OWN WORDS THAT HE'S BEEN TELLING THE PUBLIC AND HIS FANS! He's a Hypocrit!
<quote>Last year, the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) show The Fifth Estate did a show on some of the same topics: W Bush's financial connection to Saudi money; the Carlye group; Saudi jet leaving Sept 13 2001 when everyone else is grounded and when they might have valuable information.</quote>
<a href=http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm>Link</a>
They were questioned.
What would you have wanted Bush to do? Lock them up in Cuba? That is, after all, what the Anti-Bush crowd are against. That and questioning. To the anti-Bush crowd, just questioning these people after 9/11 would have been illegal. How DARE those evil repubilcans profile and target those dark skinned Arabs! They wouldn't have had the time to get the warrents for them all in that amount of time. They questioned the Saudis without lawyers present! Bush violated these people rights! The Horror! Call the ACLU! Bush = Hitler!
Everyone was grounded?
Including media helecopters? Organ delivery?
But that doesn't matter. What DOES matter is this:
How many acts of violence occured after Pearl Harbor on Japanese-Americans (right after pearl harbor, before internment and after internment)? Do you know? It's easy to forget. And since we were dealing with an evil man whom the world knew his name... his family name, do you not think that people would not attack and hunt down other bin Ladens and other muslims?
<a href=http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/attack/39283_intern18.shtml>Link</a>
"Thanks" to the leftist US media, they told the world, EVEN WHILE THE TWIN TOWERS WERE STILL STANDING AND BURNING, who might had been behind this (the government NEVER did that, that was what the media did. The media jumped the gun before the facts could be found). Osama Bin Laden was broadcast on the air the whole time. His name kept getting repeated over and over again "judging by past suicide attacks, this looks like it could be the work of Osama bin Ladens al qaeda network". And they were mentioning Muslim, Muslis, Muslim Islamic Islamic Islamic. That's the type of stuff the media was repeating. And because of what the media did in those early hours on 9/11, it was best to get bin ladens and other Saudis (that's right, it wasn't just bin ladens) out of the USA who were not citizens but were in the USA getting college educations.
Look, we all know how WWII got started in Europe in terms of people blaming others for their problems. Hitler was blaming Jews for Germany's problems, even without evidence. And look what happened... riots. Jewish homes burnt. Jewish Shops burnt vanalized. Jews dragged through the steets. Jews killed. This was all happening 5 years before they were sadly rounded up and gassed (holocaust). All this because Hitler mentioned "JEWS".... and the angry German mobs did the rest.
See the parallels? HAS THIS THOUGHT EVER POPPED IN YOUR HEAD? Anyone who took the time to think and has intelligence, it should've.
We learned from what American citizens did to Japanese-Americans, and we learned what Hitler caused to have happen to German Jews. We learned from the past. I would think the world would have appauded our actions. Sadly, they're/you're using them as a scapegoat for an anti-Bush agenda.
It just amazes me how some people will go so far to defame Bush and the USA. They just like to think up conspiracies instead of using common sence. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. -
patio34
Hi exjdub,
I enjoyed your posts. It seems to me also that what the critics are picking on MM's 911 are picayune and the big points such as the blatant lies we've been told and Bush sitting catatonically while this country is under attack for seven minutes are all but unmentioned.
Colonel, Every word of MM's film has been documented and if it's incorrect, believe me there will be plenty of factual info about it! This is being gone over scrupulously. And yes, it's been well-known since the invasion started that only one of Congress has a son or daughter in the military.
What I've noticed, since MM has clearly stated he has lawyers on the ready to sue anyone quickly for slander, etc., that the news is very gingerly accusing it of being in error. Most of it is, as I said, irrelevant details, not the big accusations of MM being wrong about the Carlyle Group, the binLadens, the Saudis, the pipeline thru Afghanistan, the inaction of our Commander-in-Chief, etc. Ha! At least they've got more class than calling him fat!
This silence on the major points seems to me to be confirmation of them.
Pat
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Simon
I get most of my news from blogs. There are Iraqi bloggers in Iraq telling what's going on, yet the media never report it. That's how the media is. They only report the bad. That draws viewers. They admit to this. And some people beleive that's all their is going on.
Yeah, that damn media. It's really a very nice place. Honestly, any big city has hundreds of people being blown up, runnning gun battles and air-strikes. It really isn't so bad.
And of course, bloggers never lie ... (maybe Bush should start keeping one)
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SixofNine
The "MM hasn't personally gone to Iraq" stuff is stupid beyond stupid. The kind of criticism you'd expect from a person who got a single brain cell from Paris Hilton and a single brain cell from Nicole Richie, and thereby had two.
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Colonel Kurtz
<quote>This silence on the major points seems to me to be confirmation of them.</quote>
I'm typing that post. Give me a break. Don't jump the gun and get into a "because you didn't respond, I win" attitude.