The message has changed . . . or am I wrong again? (page 3)

itsallgoodnow

That's so true. Do more, do more. They never stop saying that. I guess they are desperate to keep people distracted enough to stay on.

btw, I really enjoyed your post on the Crazy JW superstitions thread the other day, Gary. Thanks, IAGN

jgnat

Gary, I think you are right-on about the change of emphasis. What a great thread! I want to be the scape-goat.

The scape-goat got sprinkled with the blood/sin of the entire tribe, was given a swift slap on the rump, and set free to roam to the wilderness. By comparison, the perfect sheep got his throat slit and was eaten.

How much more fun to be an escaped goat!

Brownboy

Gee, Brownboy, probably!!! He has the right to make conjecture, just like you. And it's probably quite a bit more accurate than the pseudo prophetic "911" drivel that you peddle around here!!! what are ya, CT russel? Avishai

Avashai,

If you are suggesting that I am selling (peddling) my 911 message, I have never asked a single penny for anything. I am disseminating information, and perhaps you might thank me some day, only time will tell.

And if someone on this post makes comment about anything, it always holds more weight if you provide a basis for your thinking.............thanks for elaborating Gary.....

I am Brownboy, and have never met C T Russel

cyber-sista

#13 Natural affection even towards family goes out the window if it divides your heart from the Org.

20+ years ago there was more emphasis on making a better family life (or so I was lead to believe). I was told I would be a better wife and mother if I belonged to the JW religion despite my unbelieving husband we could still have a good family life together. My unbelieving husband was also to be treated as a person of worth by the congo (the marriage is santified through the believer). I personally saw a gradual shift in that understanding over the years. Now the unbelieving mate is not so respected and many times is villianized from the platform. The last 5 years of my time in the Org were spent fighting to keep the Org from trashing my family and putting divisions between us. Terrible things were said to me in regards to my loving and functional relationship with husband and daughter (both unbelievers)..The statements made to me by those of position in the Org were very clear--it is now wrong to love your family unless they were a part of the Org...

gitasatsangha

Gary,

I think the change has come from the "Generation" theory being dropped. That was very significant, as it turned the JW's potentially from a doomsday cult to a religion in the long haul. They don't want to give up the cult aspects, however, and they no longer have a central charismatic leader, so they began the process of personification of the Org. (Proclaimer's Book, Revelation Climax, "Special" Two Day assemblies with reps from Crooklynn present). Next comes deification of the Org, and I think that process is going on now. Where it will end I don't know.

garybuss

gitasatsangha, Your comments seem like we are seeing the same thing. You wrote: "Next comes deification of the Org, and I think that process is going on now."

I think we are well into it. The Society has delivered the message that the Witness people are dispensable loud and clear to me. Great post, thanks!

cyber-sista, I remember noticing the Witness people encouraging my wife to leave the family because we were not believers. I did not realize this was an organizational movement until I researched the doctrine of "absolute endangerment of spirituality".

Now after interviewing a few hundred current and former Witnesses, I see it is a rip tide within the organization. It's the actual isolation of members rather than the former conceptual isolation of members.

Thanks for all the great comments. You all are giving me much to think about. GaryB

cyber-sista

#14 Years ago it seemed as if we were encouraged to be hospitible towards all. Some witnesses even invited their neighbors and such to their home for dinner (ulterior motives) but nonetheless they at least made an attempt to be show their loving kindness. Just recently spoke with someone (not a witness) who remembers years ago he had known some friendly group of witnesses in town who had invited him over for barbeques, etc (he asked me about them and I have never heard of them and have been here for a while so maybe they left too).

One of the last meetings I went to the elder from the platform said this (almost exact words, as it is burned into my mind forever): "We may know people in this community who are nice people, who practice good morals and we may reason that these people are OK, but brothers let me tell you we should not be socializing with these people. We should not be playing basketball with these people. We should not even be speaking with these people!!! Because if we talk with them we may start thinking like these people!!! (He was shouting these words and just about foaming at the mouth)

A man who was a casual bible study was there that night and I saw him jump out of his seat and run to the back of the hall (his face was red and he broke out in a sweat). He looked very troubled and doubt if he ever came back--I left shortly thereafter--forever.

I don't understand why if this Organization truly wants to attract people (or keep them in) why they don't change their stategies a bit. They are becoming very uninviting--even to their own members.

willyloman

Gary: You nailed it with your description of the current morph of the WTS as it shape-shifts into a whole new animal. Someone said it began in 1995 when the "generation" teaching was spun in a new direction, but I think it goes back to 1975 when the end didn't come. It took a few years for the JWs own 20th century version of "the great disappointment" to set in... if fact, it is just now becoming clearly identifiable.

It's my theory that the '75 fiasco rocked to organization to its core, despite their reluctance to acknowledge any impact at all (see "denial" in your psychology textbook). To soften the blow, the WTS started creating artificial growth, such as aribtrarily splitting congregations when they got to a certain size, building many new kingdom halls in a highly publicized new "quick build" method, and modernizing their printing and reproduction machinery to take their magazines and books to a new "glossy" high tech level. They created a whole new clergy-laity class with the elder arrangement, which was launched just prior to '75 (perhaps when it was clear to some of the Gov Body that 1975 was only a few years away and there was clearly a LOT that would have to happen before the end came).

It has become organization-centered now, not "Christian living centered." When we came in, we were promised "mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters" by the hundreds if we left the old ones behind, a rich social life beyond our wildest dreams, the satisfaction of knowing we were serving Jehovah and Jesus and our fellow man be issuing a critical warning in the small amount of time that was left. We were assured that the truth would withstand any scrutiny; I remember being told endlessly about the Boreans, who "examined the scriptures daily" to make sure it was all true; the brother who studied with me kept saying, "Don't take MY word for it, it's all right here in the bible." It was all about research and discovery in those days. Now, "all the research has been done for you," the WT tells us. We are actively discouraged from looking elsewhere for any confirmation that the "truth" is the truth.

That's all gone. It is, as you point out so well, all inner-directed. Dubs are not only "preaching to the choir," but perfecting that kind of preaching as we speak. Gone are the big gatherings, the talent shows, the congregation picnics and softball games. We are made to be suspicious of our "brothers," and told to guard our association with those perceived to be weak (i.e., they miss meetings or don't get out in FS often enough).

This is why we left, why others have gone over the wall, why everywhere I look formerly active dubs are half-in, half-out. It's why the JWs are "losing" their children in numbers approaching 90% in many congos.

cyber-sista

It has become organization-centered now, not "Christian living centered."

Willyloman--I think you have hit the nail on the head. When I came in 20 years ago it was about becoming a better person and studying the scriptures--like you said "checking to see if it was so". Of course much of it was always an illusion, but in the last 5 years (ending this past year) I felt as if I was being beaten over the head with the "Organization." Nothing else mattered--no matter how Christlike you were or how much you developed those "fruits of the spirit" in your life--it was all about the Organization and the ones who held "positions" in the Org and serving the Organization was the only thing that mattered.

gitasatsangha

Maybe the Org's directors will start reading these forums and use our "Suggestions" to at least make the religion a little more livable for the folks inside.

The message has changed . . . or am I wrong again?

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