The Day "Rebellion" Happened in Bethel (page 4)

Stephanus

IW, results are what matters, not bullshit rhetoric. You can claim all you like that there are kind, God-fearing Bethelites, but what are the results of their presence in Bethel? Same old, same old. It is still a murderous, autocratic, and negative religion that encourages small-mindedness, jealous behaviour and the covering up of crime in case it embarrasses the org. They still stamp out any individual attempts to address God on His own terms by stamping out any independent thinking and searching. If there are any good guys left in Bethel, then they are as responsible for the crap as are the bad guys.

IslandWoman

Stephanus,

If there are any good guys left in Bethel, then they are as responsible for the crap as are the bad guys.

Then blame Ray Franz, Dunlap and the others who stayed along with everyone here who did not get up and leave at the first sign of doubt. The GB votes, not all who vote get their way! Come on, life is not some childish game it's about no sure things and no absolutes. There are no absolutes anywhere!

That is just the way it is.

IW

jst2laws

WOW,

They decided
to form a committee of three ex-CO's to look into
the matter of why brothers weren't volunteering for
Bethel Service.
These brothers, much to the Society's chagrin, took
the attitude that conditions were so awful in Bethel,
word was getting out and nobody wanted to come. They
assembled testimony from countless Bethelites to
prove how horrid things were

This is an old thread resurrected. I was there when this happened. I'm not sure at this time how to respond, but I will try tomorrow. This was called "Black Thursday" (or was it Tuesday) by Charlie Cromer in the Machine Shop.

Megaton's point "The Society doesn't change for ethical reasons,
or love or kindness or because of Christian principle." is well taken. But the details our lost in Myth.

I hope I have time or energy to discuss this tomorrow.

Jst2laws

onacruse

Oh man, does this ever bring back memories

BT, thanks for bringing this back to the top. It nevers pays to forget.

IW:

It is just that here it is customary to only post the negative, this I believe leaves many just as "controlled" as when they were in the Watchtower. Group think is group think.

I agree. And along that line, I'll gladly say that I've many good memories of, and met many good people at, Bethel; including some GBers that I honestly thought were sincere Christians.

However, I resent the spin-doctoring that I now see is so typical of the WTS. For example, I know, since I was sitting there at the breakfast table (1969), day after day for 2 weeks, listening to Knorr rant-and-rave about it, that there was a major shaking-out of homosexual activity at Bethel, including Gileadites (about 40 Bethelites involved, as I recall). Did I ever read one single word in the publications about it? NO. Did I ever meet any other JW who'd ever even heard about it? NO. Did any of us Bethelites talk about it? NO; we all kept our mouths shut and our heads down.

((jst2)), I hope you feel well enough Saturday to share your thoughts.

Craig

Stephanus

Then blame Ray Franz, Dunlap and the others who stayed along with everyone here who did not get up and leave at the first sign of doubt.

They did get up and leave when it was clear that there was reasonable grounds for doubt. The Bethelites who stayed behind and witnessed the shabby treatment of the above named gentlemen, cowering behind a fear of no retirement plan, are as guilty of that treatment as the GB who doled it out. They have no excuse, IW.

Come on, life is not some childish game it's about no sure things and no absolutes.

Yet you want to declare the existence of "good guys" at Bethel as an absolute. And beat the rest of us (who realise it is easier, a form of shorthand, if you like, to simply say that there is something rotten in Brooklyn Heights) over the head with it.

The good, i.e. the life that may once have been at Bethel was discarded long ago. The WBTS is a lifeless corpse that rots before our very eyes, IW. This is the point Metatron makes time and time again - where as once it was a living breathing org, albeit breathing the words of madmen like F Franz and Knorr, it is a shell. A group of impotent bureaucrats who look fondly back at a time when the org seemed to have direction. It has none now, IW, precisely because these cowardly yes men said "no" to a stand for what was right and good,, and "yes" to an uncomplicated retirement.

Earnest

I know, since I was sitting there at the breakfast table (1969), day after day for 2 weeks, listening to Knorr rant-and-rave about it, that there was a major shaking-out of homosexual activity at Bethel, including Gileadites (about 40 Bethelites involved, as I recall).

Sheesh! Craig...for a bright-eyed 17-year-old who had just attained his life dream of spiritual paradise this must have been a rude awakening. I have to say that my experience of the South African Bethel was similar - many sincere christians but the "spiritual paradise" was far from Eden.

Earnest

SYN

Earnest, another poster who hasn't been here for some time had a similiar story (a steamy one, in fact) about the branch you're referring to. And they made it all seem so pure and whitewashed to us, but even back then, I knew a sweat-shop when I saw it. Good to see you're still around, boet!

IslandWoman

Stephanus,

They did get up and leave when it was clear that there was reasonable grounds for doubt. The Bethelites who stayed behind and witnessed the shabby treatment of the above named gentlemen, cowering behind a fear of no retirement plan, are as guilty of that treatment as the GB who doled it out. They have no excuse, IW.

Ray Franz did not leave the Org., even though he knew about the Malawi/Mexico thing and many other problems, he also did not leave when Dunlap was shabbily disfellowshiped and he did not leave when he himself was put out of Bethel.

There is more to this than a simple recognizing of injustices, this is religion. As long as sincere people believe their religion is God approved they will continue to attribute faults in their religion to human error or sinful men in their midst, not the religion as a whole.

Yet you want to declare the existence of "good guys" at Bethel as an absolute.

There are many fine former Bethelites, elders, etc. who post here and on other boards etc., who have had quite a bit of experience as "leaders" in the Org. it seems. My point is, should we now believe that all the "good" ones are out and there is no possibility that others may still exist? To me it does not make sense to believe that. Personally, I know that there are still fine brothers there but that is my personal experience not worth much on a discussion board so reason must be applied, imo.

And beat the rest of us (who realise it is easier, a form of shorthand, if you like, to simply say that there is something rotten in Brooklyn Heights) over the head with it.

I am sorry if I came across that way, it was not my intent to "beat". I apologize.

I'm just giving my take on things that's all. Just dismiss what I post, as some here already do.

Linda

The Day "Rebellion" Happened in Bethel

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