Are you people really Jehovahs Whitness?
.....well I'll be damned! (joke)
HI Fred H
Welcome to the forum!! This forum is made up of mostly EX-Jehovah Witnesses and those wishing to exit.
Welcome again!!
Cassi
Go Get Em COSBY!!!
by Flash 211 Replies latest jw friends
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Cassiline
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bigboi
there is just no way to excuse this behavoior discussed in this article by blaming Whitey or Society-
It really is no surprise to me that Blacks lag behind whites in things like home-ownership, savings, stocks, and all those things. For the vast majority of our existence here as a people we were excluded from participation in those areas of the eonomy. That's just fact. I'm not saying that to excuse poor spending habits and whatnot, I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation. I thinkit can be fairly said that to many Blacks, much of this is quite new territory. Also, statistics can be somewhat misleading. You can probably find a stat that shows from the 90's til 2000, the amount of money Black people spent on books more than doubled. A brief drop in spending on that means simply that for whatever reason, Blacks chose to spend less money on books than the year before. It hardy shows some kind of Black character flaw. When it comes to true economic power, it's all about who has the ability to make things happen. Who has the means for production, setting certain policy and the like. Until that you see more Black people involved in that aspect, then Blacks will continue to be behind..it's as simple as that.Here's an interesting article.
Rich vs. Poor in Black America
By Earl Ofari Hutchinson, Pacific News Service. Posted May 8, 2003 .
Reports that 1 million black children live in extreme poverty exist side-by-side with news of unprecedented economic, political and cultural gains by African Americans.
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According to a recent report from the Children's Defense Fund, nearly 1 million black children now live not in poverty, but "extreme poverty." That's the greatest number of black children trapped in dire poverty in nearly 25 years. Yet barely a week before the Fund released those figures, a Census report found that blacks made gains in education and owned more homes, and that more black children lived in two-parent households.
The tale of progress in black America is evident in more than reports and crunched census numbers. In recent days, Black Entertainment Television founder Bob Johnson outbid Larry Bird for a professional basketball franchise, Oprah Winfrey cracked the billionaire's club, and Colin Powell became the much-touted point man for Bush administration foreign policy.
A year ago, Denzel Washington and Halle Berry copped top acting honors at the Academy Awards and black executives grabbed the top spots at American Express, AOL-Time-Warner and Merrill-Lynch. Add to that the legions of multimillionaire black superstar athletes, celebrities and professionals.
The contrast to the tales of poverty can't be more glaring. There are nearly 1 million blacks behind bars. The HIV/AIDS rampage, a sea of homeless persons and raging drug and gang violence plague many black communities.
Though the widening rift between the black haves and the black have-nots has been blurred by racism, ignored by blacks and hidden from white society, the class fissures have long existed, and they're getting deeper by the year. Between 1975 and 1995, the number of black professionals, technicians, administrators and managers nearly tripled, and the number of black college graduates doubled, according to census figures. By 2000, more than 15 percent of black households earned more than $50,000 annually. The top one-fifth of black families earned nearly half of all black income.
Black wealth, like white wealth, is now concentrated in fewer hands.
In the 1950s, sociologist E. Franklin Frazier warned that many blacks were becoming what he contemptuously branded a "black bourgeoisie" that controlled the wealth and power within the black community and turned its back on its own people. Worse, many members of Frazier's black bourgeoisie had begun to adopt the values, standards and ideals of the white middle class, and to distance themselves from the black poor.
In the 1960s, federal entitlement programs, civil rights legislation, equal opportunity statutes and affirmative action programs initiated during Lyndon Johnson's administration broke the last barriers of legal segregation. The path to universities and corporations for some blacks was now wide open. More blacks than ever did what their parents only dreamed of -- they fled blighted inner-city areas in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Detroit and Atlanta in droves.
By the end of the 1980s, one in 10 blacks was affluent enough to move to the suburbs. The expansion of tract homes, condos and apartments made the move easier. In the decade since the 1992 Rodney King riots, the stampede of black business and professionals from the inner cities accelerated.
At the same time, civil rights organizations and black politicians did an about-face. They defined the black agenda in increasingly narrow terms: Affirmative action, economic parity, professional advancement and busing replaced battling poverty, reducing unemployment, securing quality education, promoting self-help and gaining greater political empowerment as the goals of all African Americans.
This left the one out of four blacks who wallowed below the official poverty level, trapped in drug- and gang-plagued neighborhoods. Their children had to go to underserved, badly deteriorating inner-city schools that black middle class families had long since abandoned. Lacking education, competitive skills and training, the black have-nots were further relegated to the outer fringes of society.
But even though black professionals, politicians and celebrities may be light years apart from poor blacks in their wealth and status, color is hardly a relic of the past. Wealthy blacks fume in anger as taxis speed past and blithely ignore them. They can be stopped, shaken down, and spread-eagled by the police. They can be subjected to poor or no service in restaurants. They file countless EEOC complaints and lawsuits against corporations for stacking them at the low end in management positions. A sharp economic downturn could dump more than a few of them back into the same crumbling neighborhoods they worked long and hard to escape.
Rich versus poor, progress and poverty. It's an old tale. The twist is that it can now be told in black America.
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JT
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this is the type of mindset among black folks that will continue to hold blacks back, i feel sorry for you as a black man- as one reads your post it is clear that you continue to look for any excuse you can to excuse black folks for bad choices- lets' take a closer look at his post
"It really is no surprise to me that Blacks lag behind whites in things like home-ownership, savings, stocks, and all those things. - For the vast majority of our existence here as a people we were excluded from participation in those areas of the eonomy."-
while the above is a true statement in 1960 it is not true today in the sense that blacks are EXCLUDED---just as easy i can buy rims, i could buy stock in the company that makes the rims today, for $8.00 a trade i could buy $10,000 worth of stock in the company that makes the rims
today one is able to buy some property easier than ever before
to open up a savings account and put Liquor, beer and Air jordan money into as never been easier
so are arguement fails to address this FACT - black folks can particpate in those areas of the ecomony now and FAIL TO DO SO in larger numbers due to CHOICES not due to exclusion 40yrs ago-
i take my lunch to work almost everyday and i put $5 dollars in mayanaise jar each day i take my lunch, at the end of the month i have almost $100.00 as petty cash-
my wife and i don't have any kids , we set up a "pay the baby sitter fund" where we put in almost the amount it would cost us to have a babysitter if we had a 2yr old, we have been doing this for over 10yrs- DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH A BABY SITTER COST EACH MONTH- during the 90's we took that money and put it into high tech stocks and mutual funds, in nov of 99 we were scared to death about y2k so we moved it over to more blue chips, and we didn't get hit like most folks-
these are choices my man, choices not whitey , not society, but chioices
you continue to say
"I'm not saying that to excuse poor spending habits and whatnot"
then what are you saying then if not to excuse folks poor spending habits- no white man made black folks put $150.00 shoes on a 9 yr old
when i asked my dad for my first pair of "Chuck Taylor All Stars", $16.00 he laughed at my black a$$ and said if you want them you will buy them
my dad had it harder than any black person my age or less growing up in his day
uyou state
" I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation."
as i have shown it ain't reality, we are not excluded like were were in the old days
you continue
" I thinkit can be fairly said that to many Blacks, much of this is quite new territory."
How is it new territory, black folks have been saving money for years, my grandma always had cash hid in her Bra, she knew how to stretch a dime
you continue
" Also, statistics can be somewhat misleading. You can probably find a stat that shows from the 90's til 2000, the amount of money Black people spent on books more than doubled. A brief drop in spending on that means simply that for whatever reason, Blacks chose to spend less money on books than the year before."
point well taken we don't know why they chose to spend less , but i noticed that you failed to commnet on what they DID SPEND MORE ON
YOU STATES
" It hardy shows some kind of Black character flaw."
ACTUALLY no one ever said it was a "Character Flaw" - just bad choices- choosing not to take ones rain coat with clouds in the sky don't mean one has a character flaw, just means as it's raining on your behind, you made the wrong choice
" When it comes to true economic power, it's all about who has the ability to make things happen. Who has the means for production, setting certain policy and the like. Until that you see more Black people involved in that aspect, then Blacks will continue to be behind..it's as simple as that."
once again no argument with me i totally agree that are many things that we have no control over what soever, BUT HERE IS MY QUESTION TO YOU
are you saying that until "Whitey" decides to to change then black folks CAN'T DO NO BETTER UNTIL THAT TIME COMES ???
personally i beleive and so do many black folks that while there maybe lots of things in our way, we can still do much better than we are.
instead of like you sitting around waiting for THE MAN TO CHANGE
I don't expect the man to change therefore it require me to put forth my best effort to make the best of the situation be it saving money, buying a home, being a good father]
if you like to take it a step further then pick up the July 2004 Ebony mag on why black women are the #1 group at risk for AIDS -
IT AIN'T GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH "WHITEY' it has to do with values, and choices
you can dance all day long around this is why i can't do that or why i can't do this, but the bottom line remains
What are black folks doing about the THINGS THEY CAN CONTROL, -
just my two
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JT
i read your article , but the problem runs much deeper than BLACKS WHO HAVE AND BLACKS WHO DON';T
as i have pointed out, when you look at the blacks who do have ---and look at many of thier kids many times , --you would think they have no father or mother around-
the language coming out of their mouths, the grades they attain in some of the best schools are oftemtimes no better than a kid in the hood-
we are talking about values of WHAT IS IMPORTANT AND NOT, for black folks to get upset at someone saying for saying
"You need to speak good and proper english" is very revealing
to tell someone they need to conduct themselves respectiblly in public and they get upset is once again revealing
when your grandad and my grandad were growing up , they may had to wear HAND ME DOWNS, and didn't have a Dime in their pockets but they knew how to conduct themselves as they represented our families in the street-
what is very sad is to read your article and it talks about "poverty" that is found among many blacks- and that makes the point even more so , for to have so few funds to run their house hold , time and time again you will see how too many will take what little money they do have and buy PHAT FARM CLOTHES FOR A 3 YR OLD
CHOICES MY MAN CHOICES
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Cassiline
Reports that 1 million black children live in extreme poverty exist side-by-side with news of unprecedented economic, political and cultural gains by African Americans.
The rest of the stats where that quote comes from goes onto say:
The number of black children living in extreme poverty climbed to nearly 1 million in 2001, according to the Children?s Defense Fund (CDF), a Washington, DC-based child advocacy group. The record number was the result of a sharp one-year increase in the number of black children living in families at half the poverty level from 2000 to 2001.
While the CDF report focused on black children because of the staggering rate of increase in extreme poverty among this group, there are growing numbers of children of all races in the US living under these wretched conditions?defined by the Census Bureau as an annual income of $7,064 or less for a family of three.
Other research has placed the number of Hispanic children in extreme poverty at 733,000 in 2001, about 13 percent more than in 2000. The number of very poor white children rose by an estimated 2 percent, to 1.8 million. Thus, a total of more than 3.5 million American children live in households where basic necessities of life are simply out of reach.
Using US Census survey data, the CDF found that 932,000 black children were extremely poor in 2001, up from 686,000 a year earlier. The 2001 total was twice the number of black children living in abject poverty two decades earlier when the Census Bureau began compiling such figures.
Why Bigboi is it getting worse and not better given the article you posted above which shows so many advancements for black people? Whites and Hispanic live in extreme poverty as well. It's not just black people who have it bad. Is there that much racism going on still? Which I do not see, perhaps because I am not a black minority just a minority.
Or is it because something needs to be done by the community which is not being done?
Cassi
edit to add:
? Issue No. 41 (Autumn 2003)
Vital Signs: Statistics That Measure the State of Racial Inequality
In each issue, The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education collects statistics bearing on the relative status of blacks and whites, some of which are interesting but not particularly important whereas others are highly relevant and critical to the measurement of racial progress.
(Note: Boldface type suggests items of positive or important change.)? Percentage of African-American adults in 1960 who had completed high school: 20.1%
? Percentage of African-American adults in 2002 who had completed high school: 78.7% (U.S. Department of Education)? Percentage of all white children ages 3 to 5 in the United States in 2001 who were read to three or more times a week: 89.4%
? Percentage of all black children ages 3 to 5 in the United States in 2001 who were read to three or more times a week: 76.7% (U.S. Department of Education)? Percentage of all white eighth-grade children in 2001 who cared for themselves during after-school hours: 12.6%
? Percentage of all black eighth-grade children in 2001 who cared for themselves during after-school hours: 18.2% (U.S. Department of Education)? Percentage of all non-Hispanic whites who left high school in 2002 who dropped out of high school without earning a diploma: 9.9%
? Percentage of all African-Americans who left high school in 2002 who dropped out of high school without earning a diploma: 17.0% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)? Median household income for non-Hispanic white families in the United States, 2002: $46,900
? Median household income for black families in the United States, 2002: $29,026 (U.S. Bureau of the Census)? Percentage change in median household income for non-Hispanic white families in the United States from 2001 to 2002: -0.3%
? Percentage change in median household income for black families in the United States from 2001 to 2002: -3.0% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)? Number of racial discrimination complaints filed at the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in 1992: 29,548
? Number of racial discrimination complaints filed at the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in 2002: 29,910 (U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission)? Percentage of all white children under the age of 18 in the United States who live with both their parents:74.5%
? Percentage of all black children under the age of 18 in the United States who live with both their parents: 38.5% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)? Average number of books and articles published in refereed journals by white full-time instructional faculty at the nation's institutions of higher education over a recent two-year period: 4.8
? Average number of books and articles published in refereed journals by black full-time instructional faculty at the nation's institutions of higher education over a recent two-year period: 3.5 (U.S. Department of Education)? Percentage of the non-Hispanic white population living below the poverty level in 2002: 8.0%
? Percentage of the black population living below the poverty level in 2002: 24.1% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)? Percentage of non-Hispanic white children under the age of 18 living below the poverty level in 2002: 13.6%
? Percentage of black children under the age of 18 living below the poverty level in 2002: 32.2% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)? Number of black elected officials in the United States in 1970: 1,469
? Number of black elected officials in the United States in 2000: 9,040 (Joint Center for Political Studies)? Number of black judges in the United States in 1970: 209
? Number of black judges in the United States in 2000: 686 (Joint Center for Political Studies)? Life expectancy at birth of a black American who was born in the year 1960: 63.6 years
? Life expectancy at birth of a black American who was born in the year 2001: 72.2 years (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)? Percentage of all white Americans over the age of 25 who hold a graduate or professional degree: 9.5%
? Percentage of all African Americans over the age of 25 who hold a graduate or professional degree: 4.8% (U.S. Bureau of the Census)? Percentage of all white households with incomes of $50,000 who own stock or stock mutual funds: 79%
? Percentage of all black households with incomes of $50,000 who own stock or stock mutual funds: 61% (Ariel Mutual Funds/Charles Schwab)? Number of hours the average American woman spends watching television each week: 29.4
? Number of hours the average African-American woman spends watching television each week: 37.4 (Mediamark Research)? Percentage of all white Americans who believe that on average blacks and other minorities receive lower quality health care than whites: 22%
? Percentage of all African Americans who believe that on average blacks and other minorities receive lower quality health care than whites: 65% (Harvard Forums on Health)? Percentage of the white vote received by Arnold Schwarzenegger in the October 7 gubernatorial election in California: 52%
? Percentage of the Hispanic vote received by Schwarzenegger in the October 7 gubernatorial election in California: 33%
? Percentage of the black vote received by Schwarzenegger in the October 7 gubernatorial election in California: 17% (Edison Media Research) -
bigboi
Why Bigboi is it getting worse and not better given the article you posted above which shows so many advancements for black people? Whites and Hispanic live in extreme poverty as well. It's not just black people who have it bad. Is there that much racism going on still? Which I do not see, perhaps because I am not a black minority just a minority.
Yes, there still is a great deal of racism and discrimination going on in this country. However, I don't think that was the gist of the article. I've never said that Black people were the only group in the country with members livingin extreme poverty. The purpose of the article was to give a description of the economic disparity in the Black community, which I think is the main reason why Blacks tend to have disproportionate numbers of people living in poverty.
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bigboi
JT,
Are you serious?
You feel sorry for me as a Black man? That doesn't really surprise me though, it seems to me from your posts that you feel sorry for a lot of Blacks nowadays. I hope, for your sake, it's not the one in the mirror.
I'm done with you.
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LoverOfTruth
I know literally hundreds of Black Jehovah's Witnesses who DO NOT act in the manner Bill Cosby spoke of. Even though they're part of a White Man's Cult, they are still a credit to the community. I don't recall hearing them complain about the White Man being responsible for them. I also know many non-JW Blacks who are Exceptional People. Some are my friends.
I live in Columbus Ohio where we have a huge immigration of people from Somalia. I feel so badly for these people because many of them escaped hunger and torture in their native land and are now being attacked and molested by the ignorant blacks in our Country. You'd think the blacks would be more understanding but they're worried the Somali people are getting too much attention.
Bill Cosby is "Right On" with his comments.
I believe it is offensive to the black race to continue making lame excuses for the lazy and irresponsible few.
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StinkyPantz
JT,
Are you serious?
You feel sorry for me as a Black man? That doesn't really surprise me though, it seems to me from your posts that you feel sorry for a lot of Blacks nowadays. I hope, for your sake, it's not the one in the mirror.
Whoa. . I skipped over JT's comments because the formatting drives me nuts. If he really said that, I'm disappointed. Just because someone doesn't fully agree with you doesn't mean you need to pity them. I think both of you are intelligent men and both offer good insights. ((Bigboi)), I'm sure it doesn't mean much, but I've agreed with pretty much everything you've written. I guess JT feels sorry for me as a Black woman too.
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scrubmaster
I feel sorry that we continue as a black race to allow overself to be victims and we do not get the BIG picture --- we as a black race have the wealth of the 10 largest country - why is it we still do not seem to be able to progress and move forwarded -- we continue to line the pockets of others and not our future generations --- some one hear said they feel sorry for the people running here from Somalia -- but when - JT made his commemt about us everyone is in an uproar -- TO be honest - once those Somalia get their heads on straight and can see the opportunities available here they will end up better them some of us born here -- I work and love among foreigners and believe me -- they get the picture -- we are still living in the past and being victims - we are still judging people by the brand name of clothes,shoes, expensive car a peson drives and etc -- the sad thing if we would read books like the millionnaire next door -- we would see that most people who have money don't worry about -- these things -- They say the truth hurts -- oh well