May I look inside your heads for a moment?

by SwampThing 32 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SwampThing

  Hello again, Forum Members...

  Well, as many of you have suggested, I?ve been reading, and reading, and reading... I?ve even purchased the book several of you recommended, "Crisis of Conscience." It should be delivered next week. Some of your stories are absolutely heart-wrenching. I cannot imagine the loss of friends, family, and everything you knew just because you decided to start thinking for yourselves, or because some self-appointed spokesman for God decided you weren?t living up to the code.

  There is a part of me that feels like I shouldn?t be reading your posts. It is as though I am an outsider looking in on a group of people with whom I share no common bond, and therefore should not be privy to their pain. Another part of me realizes that you are posting here in an open forum so that your stories will be read by others, and that we will take that knowledge into the real world so as not to be deceived by the cults of the world. For that, I thank you all.

  However, I am still having a problem understanding the mind-set of someone who would put the important decisions of their lives into the hands of others. I suppose I am speaking to those of you who came to the Jws as an adult, and not those who were raised in it. I am not trying to belittle any of you, please believe me. I just don?t understand how someone can allow another person, or group of people, to dictate how you should live your lives. I began to rebel at a very young age, somewhere around 4 or 5 years old. Throughout my life I have always told people where they could get off the train if they didn?t like how I was living my life. Two of my usual responses to others when they tell me how I ?should? live is "you can run my life when you start paying my bills," or "you can tell me how to live my life when you start wearing my boots."

  If some of you would be so kind, I would like to hear more about what makes a person surrender their sovereignty to the will of another. I?ve always felt that if I am going to have to stand before God and answer for the things I did here on this earth, then you better damn well believe that it?s going to be me who takes the decisions with regard to what I do with my life. Another way to say that would be if someone is going to tell me how to live my life, then they better be ready to stand before God and accept responsibility for my actions.

  So, what makes a person place their destiny on the hands of another? What causes a person to say to himself or herself "I don?t want the responsibility of figuring this out on my own, I want someone to do it for me?" I know these questions may sound condescending, but please know that I do not intend that sort of tone. I am just curious as this is a real mystery to me.

  Thank you all again for sharing your stories with me and others who read this forum. For what it?s worth, your experiences, your knowledge, your openness and your insights have helped me see through the smoke & mirror propaganda of the Jws I have known over the past 10 years. Thank you all again.

  Most kind regards,

  Swamp Thing
• 

  Confucious

  Swamp,
  
  I'm one of those who came into JW as an adult.
  
  The part about surrendering your sovereinty to others???
  
  Very simple.
  
  And I speak only for myself. (Although I suspect others will feel the same.)
  
  I NEVER THOUGHT about it being my surrending of MY WILL towards Humans.
  
  I though of it in terms of Surrendering my will towards God. And THAT, I still want to do.
  
  It's like this...
  
  What made those Branch Davidians surrender their OWN WIVES - to let them SLEEP with David Koresh.
  
  It's because those men THOUGHT that David Koresh was a representative of God.
  
  We were taught that to submit to the Elders and the WT Gov. Body, that loyalty to them is loyalty to God.
  
  Dude, no offense taken.
  
  But GROWN MEN do it all the time.
  
  What the heck do you think those Japanese Kamakazi Pilots were dying for???
  
  They submitted themselves to their leaders because they also thought that they were doing it for God.
  
  And TRULY, NO OFFENSE TO YOU either - but I'm sure that when you look at your life, you might find that also YOU - at times are not the true pilot of yourself either.
• 

  Satanus

  Confucious

  I though of it in terms of Surrendering my will towards God. And THAT, I still want to do.

  Why?

  S
• 

  Confucious

  Satanus,
  
  Pretty much because I still believe in God and I consider Him a friend.
  
  He has never let me down.
  
  Confucious
• 

  SixofNine

  It's funny, I hadn't even read confucious post yet, and I am someone raised from birth as a witness, but my reply was going to be along the lines of "it's the God thing".

  You may well be that rebel you describe yourself as, Swamp thing, but if along with that rebel spirit is a "God" idea working hard in your head, you would likely be willing to submit to that which could convince you it represented that "God". If you have yourself convinced that God is accessable to you directly, and you can please Him w/o an organization, well good going, but you are the rare individual.

  I find myself, 5 years out of the witnesses, a person who doesn't seem to have much of that "God thing" in me, and you know what, I probably never did. But to whatever small extent I did, I submitted to it fully, because as wrong as I know my old God concept to be now, it only makes sense to submit to whatever "God" you believe in. He is God afterall. You'd be an idiot not to.
• 

  Satanus

  I was raised in the wt. Fear of getting god mad at an early age did it, i guess.

  Six

  it only makes sense to submit to whatever "God" you believe in. He is God afterall. You'd be an idiot not to.

  Guess i'm an idiot. Some people see 'god' as a higher power. But, what if 'god' is a lower power? Then we are a higher form than it. Just a thought.

  S
• 

  Nathan Natas

  Hey, SwampThing, welcome!

  "Who feels fear BURNS at the touch of the SwampThing!" -- Marvel comics, if memory serves...

  Anyway... I was raised a JW, but I was in for about 20 years. I'll offer you my thoughts.

  Suspend disbelief for a moment, please...

  A person comes to your door and tells you that soon something MARVELOUS is going to happen.

  God is going to intervene in the affairs of men. There will be no nuclear holocaust because God Himself will not permit it. God has a timetable for human affairs, and we live in that special period of time in which God will act.

  Now, this message doesn't appeal to everybody. It probably wouldn't appeal to atheists who have already recognized that God is mankind's oldest sock puppet, but there are plenty of good, sincere, people who believe the myth. People who are distressed by the evil they see manifest in the news of the world. People who feel pain at the suffering of others. People who have recently lost a dear loved one in death who wonder what has happened to them and if they will ever see each other again.

  The JW minister tells them that soon - any day now - Almighty God is going to destroy the wicked world. He shows them where it says this in their own Bible. Why hasn't their priest told them this? It was right there all along! Their priest has misled them, but we are here to help. We will show you how to get right with God. We will show you that you can hope to survive the end of this wicked world. You will see God's Righteous New World, ruled over by the heavenly king Jesus, untainted by human evil, greed and ego. And there's more! You were meant to LIVE FOREVER! God will restore you to PERFECT health, and he will re-unite you with your loved ones now lost in death by RESURRECTING THEM.

  As the late night TV info-mercial asks, "NOW HOW MUCH WOULD YOU PAY?"

  It's FREE. THis is God's GIFT to YOU. All you have to do is worship God in the way that He approves. The Bible tells you how. Study with us. Associate with us...
• 

  Lady Lee

  SOME studies have shown that as an adult anyone is more vulnerable to external influences when they have had or are going through some difficult period in their lives (illness, birth of a child, change of job, divorce, marriage) Regardless of the situation it is often one that puts the person at a disadvantage regarding their self esteem and ability to cope. Along comes a nice JW (or person from some other group - JWs aren't alone in this) who offers some answers. The love bombing given in the beginning can be a real hook to a person who feels he needs an anchor. If a person is feeling unsure of him or herself then they might be more vulnerable.

  Another aspect might be whether the person comes from some type of dysfunctional background (alcoholic or abusive family or other forms of abuse or neglect) These people may feel a familiar comfort level at having all the answers provided for them. If they never developed their own sense of self or a reasoning ability they would be perfect candidates for any type of mind control

  In many ways it is very similar to why a woman gets involved with and then stays with an abusive partner.

  There are many great essays about this on the board. Until we get a better search engine they may be hard to find but this thread gives some of mine

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/74239/1.ashx

  And if you haven't seen this thread it might be worth looking at

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/58215/1.ashx
• 

  DanTheMan

  What causes a person to say to himself or herself "I don?t want the responsibility of figuring this out on my own, I want someone to do it for me?"

  I joined JW's when I was 22.

  There were a lot of things that made the JW's attractive to me, I could probably write a book about it if I took the time. The main things were:

  Apocalypticism. I grew up Catholic, and the "last days" and "Armageddon" and all the wonderful things that they entail (barf) were subjects/mindsets that are not a part of Catholicism, generally speaking. But as a teen I was deeply affected by the dark, apocalyptic imagery and lyrics of bands like Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, and Metallica. I also smoked more marijuana than a person inclined towards paranoia and anxiety ever ought to have. I developed a very dark and cynical view of the world. I came to hate life, and often pondered suicide, and even made a couple of really lame attempts, like slitting my wrist one time and swallowing a dozen or so sleeping pills another.

  By the time I was 21 I *hated* life and I *hated* myself even more. I was desperate for something to make sense of it all, and I was absolutely certain that mankind was rotten to the core and headed towards a great apocalypse of war, famine, disease, economic collapse, etc. Of all the people in the world that I hated (and I hated everybody really) I hated politicians, clergymen, and rich businessmen the most. If I had been alive in the 1920's I probably would have though Rutherford was a genius.

  Immaturity - although legally speaking I was an adult, inside I was a scared child who found the world to be overly complex and provided too many choices. My parents did not raise me with the idea that I was an adult in training. I was an extension of them, and when as a teen I rejected their worldview and general idiocy, they had no idea what to do with me. I was paralyzed with indecision and extreme apathy (even my druggie buddies used to tease me about how negative I was). I had no direction or goals in life whatsoever, and I had no mentors trying to help me. I felt utterly alone and hopeless.

  So as you can see at 22 years old I was so ripe for the cultish fundamentalism of JW's it ain't even funny. I grabbed onto it like a drowning person grabs onto a life preserver. It filled a need.
• 

  Puternut

  SwampThing,

  Welcome to the forum. I respect the fact that you have such insight in our matters, and yet with so few posts. It shows you are intersted in these matters, and yet let the ones who have been throught it, speak and heal.

  As was stated above, it's truly subtle. And as LadyLee mentioned, it could perhaps be due to circumstances. I also was an adult, I was 22. I was simple fearful of death! I had a mixed upbringing of different faiths, and had what I thought was wrongful information. So at 22, my temporary answer was the WT. What they then said sounded appealing. And I went with it.

  But there comes a period in everyones lives, where you come to realize that you have other insights. And so you start pondering and questioning about things. And this is where I am now at. It has been a turning point in my life, but there is no going back. It was a stepping stone to come to other realizations. Based on life's experience.

  I hope this helps,

  Puternut