by enquirer 117 Replies latest watchtower bible
UnDF'ed:
I agree with what you stated, barring this point:
God only revealed what He wanted us to know about Him in His Word.
I disagree with that. You need only look to that created around about you to see further evidence (Rom.1:20), which makes the aforementioned statement false
If the Israelites did adopt Caananite mythology, that would make for an interesting synthesis come the time of the Christian revolution. Hence if (as per the NT) Jesus is being identified with YHWH, the "Father" would bear the name Elohim, not YHWH (though YHWH/Jesus would be a "father" in his own right, as per Isa.9).
I find nothing in the NT to make Jesus identified with YHWH, which the jews clearly viewed as the ONLY God and the Father.
the gnostics viewed YHWH as an demented divine being who in his ignorance thought he was the only true god, but that is a different set of myths.
LittleToe,
True, the Bible does indeed say that God's creation reveals some information about God.
I don't think there is anything in nature that reveals anything about God that is not ALSO revealed in the Bible (at least not to my knowledge).
However, just looking at creation does not reveal the Gospel of Jesus coming to earth and dying for your sins.
Zen:
You really are completely resistant to the idea that any of the early Christians viewed Jesus as a deity, aren't you?
Why on earth would I be talking about the Jews, who entirely rejected him even as Messiah?
~shakes head~
UnDF'ed:
You dont think that knowing about the power of the sun (from our current scientific knowledge) paints a far more powerful picture than the bible alone presents?
IMHO Genesis One is enhanced greatly when we have a grasp of just how much energy is involved in the process of generating a star.
Regarding a suffering saviour, that appears to be a theme in other cultures, too. Where do you think they got the idea from?
Regarding a suffering saviour, that appears to be a theme in other cultures, too. Where do you think they got the idea from?
Toe, that is true. Do you think the previous "saviours" were somehow leading up to Christ? Can one believe in Jesus as God whilst knowing that the story seems to be very similar to earlier myths?
Or am I going totally off topic?
Sirona
Sirona:
There's a school of thought that he appeared to various cultures (which kinda get's around the idea of "Christianity" and salvation only being for the West, in times past). Of course the Mormons have really run with that idea...
I dont think that idea would have any bearing on such an individual's belief of the deity of Jesus.
Toe
If he appeared to various cultures, why would his life be essentially the same for each?
Maybe this should be another thread?
Sirona
You really are completely resistant to the idea that any of the early Christians viewed Jesus as a deity, aren't you?
Why on earth would I be talking about the Jews, who entirely rejected him even as Messiah?
~shakes head~
since just about all the early christian writers were JEWS, until one of them STATES they he believed Jesus to be God, I have NO reason to see such an absurdity.... Paul certainly did not view Jesus as the same God he believed as the God of Israel and numerous times makes that crystal clear which is why those who want to read a trinity into his words are taught elsewhere.
Zen Nudist,
You talk an awful lot about who and what Jesus was NOT (in your opinion).
Do you mind if I ask you some questions?
Who do you believe Jesus was? Do you believe He even existed?
Do you believe He was an angel? Do you believe He was Michael?
Do you believe that He had a pre-existence in Heaven before being born on earth?
Do you believe that He was only a "good teacher"?
Do you believe that He was simply another Prophet?
Do you believe that He was a human upon whom the "Christ Consciousness" came?
Do you believe that He is just a myth?
What do YOU believe about Jesus?
Who do YOU say that Jesus is?
Do you believe in the Bible? Do you believe that it is the Inspired Word of God?
Do you believe that Christ died for our sins and was raised up the third day?
LittleToe,
True, seeing creation does indeed have more impact on us than simply reading about creation.
The Bible even says that God can choose to enlighten people by His creation (Romans Chapter 1).
LittleToe said:
Regarding a suffering saviour, that appears to be a theme in other cultures, too. Where do you think they got the idea from?
They got the idea from The Suffering Savior -- Jesus Christ -- The Creator.
All humans are offspring of Adam and Eve.
God declared His prophecy of the Messiah (The Seed of the Woman) suffering for our sins to Adam and Eve way back in Genesis Chapter 3.
Adam and Eve then passed this prophecy on to their children, and on and on.
Eventually, throughout the ages, when humans started filling the earth and living in different parts of the world, this prophecy, no doubt due to Satan, was altered and perverted and corrupted to fit in with the various Pagan religions.
