by Pinned Blouse 78 Replies latest jw friends
Yizu,
My suggestion to you is to consult the bible and do a research on the topic on the HS and study it throughly. Ask the Pastor there about it too. Also, pick up books on this subject as well.
Interesting story,
I will do that.
Thanks to all that responded, I am taking all of your comments to thought.
PB
I basically agree with Yeru too, although I do think the Pentecost narrative is somehow related to the actual practice of glossolalia ("speaking in tongues") as appears in 1 Corinthians.
The author of Acts is aware of this old practice in some churches but recasts it into something very different: basically a "miracle" involving people speaking actual foreign languages they don't know (although the narrative is confused and v. 11 seems to locate the miracle in the hearing).
For the sake of clarity: I understand 1 Corinthians as the testimony to an actual practice (which Paul, incidentally, tries hard to put under control) and Acts as a theological fiction (kind of anti-Babel).
Mixing the two still happens, and it can be quite funny: I remember attending a meeting in a charismatic Catholic community over 10 years ago. A girl started praying in Portuguese. Immediately after a man stood up to "translate" (from his own inspiration of course). He didn't know Portuguese and thought she was "speaking in (exstatic) tongues" -- until somebody told him...
Pinned Blouse I know exactly how you feel. I attend a Baptist church (New Hope Baptist Church) and there have been a many Sundays that I have been crying because I was so moved by what the pastor was saying, especially when the message was meant for me. I have never ever felt that way at the KH. And yes when I first saw people "catching the Holy Ghost" I thought it was kinda funny. Silly me. Now I long to feel what that's like. I have come close many times and for some reason I never really go all the way. I guess I still be having those stupid thoughts of that it's the demons making them dance around like that. Darn crazy JW lingering beliefs.
I know it's not funny, but a close friend of mine who went to the KH for years but never got baptized invited me to this non-denominational church. I liked it because it was small kinda like the KH size meetings. But anyway in order to get baptized (in water) you had to be baptized with the holy spirit which meant speaking in tongues. My friend told me she did it and it was like nothing she had ever experienced before. Anyway we were gonna get baptized on the same day. So I had to be baptized with the HS quickly. Well there really wasn't a rush but I wanted to be baptized at the same time my friend did. Anyway, the preacher started out by praying to God that he would allow me to be filled with the HS. Mind you my friend had already told me what was gonna be done. So the preacher is praying and his wife is praying and I was praying too because I wanted to be on this closer level with God. Problem was I wasn't feeling anything. The more the preacher was praying and getting excited himself, I was feeling nothing. Finally it got to the point that he was like saying c'mon God let her feel your presence, c'mon God....and I'm standing there thinking ok maybe I'm just one of the ones that God is not pleased with and he's not gonna let me experience this. But the preacher and his wife were getting so excited, mind you I've heard my grandmother speak in tongues many many times and others speak in tongues so I kinda knew how it sounded....not wanting to dissappoint these 2 hopping around me and stuff.....I FAKED IT....I actually was just saying mumbo jumbo and thinking in my head, this is fake, they think I'm talking in tongues and I'm not. I still got baptized for the 2nd time in my life and nobody knew what I had did...until now.
But now I really do feel God's presence when I'm at church. So I still have my doubts about speaking in tongues, but I know in all my years of going to the KH and my days now of going to church, there is no comparison. When I was deep into JW my grandmother(that speaks in tongues) would come to the memorial because of my dad and she would always ask me why we sung so monotone like everyone is sad or something. I always wondered what she meant because of course JW's can't listen to gospel music, but now I know. That's a thread I might start today unless one has already been done. What's so wrong with JW's listening to gospel music. It's praising God, but I already know the answer, it didn't come from NYGB. But they can listen to all other types of music. Let me stop before I really get started.
Interesting topic!!
I am still in the "scared to put my trust in organized religion" stage and the only church I have had the courage to enter was one where my Aunt's funeral service was being held. At the first hymn that was sung---I lost it---never mind that I couldn't sing---I was sobbing, and I had to leave and stayed in the ladies room. I just cannot listen to the music without breaking up completely---bacause I downloaded some hymns that I was familiar with from a long time ago---and the same thing happens.
My grandson who lived with us since he was 5 months old, was 15 last summer, and wanting to attend church with a friend. He went to the service and came home talking about an "old lady" that fell and no one picked her up. I thought that was rather odd, but I later discovered that the church believed in the speaking of tongues, and that "falling out" when the spirit hits them (sorry if I butchering the description, I don't mean any offense) and thats what was happening. It scared him to bits---having been raised in the WTS!
I somehow thought that the "tongues" and "healing by hands" had been "done away with" and were no longer scripturally practiced. I don't actually know any more about these things than my grandson did! I am interested in learning about a lot of things, but I am SO skeptical and don't (can't) trust in much of anything just yet....except for finally getting acquainted with the REAL Jesus and what he stands for (as opposed to the WTS idea of Jesus) and I feel very strongly about that. I figure its a start.
I've learned so much on Beliefnet---they have the "learn about" boards there and you can research any religion you care to. On the JW Debate board---there are a few exJWs that post, and I have learned so much from them. It's nice to read things from exJWs on what they have found and the way they present themselves so that someone coming from a WTS background can relate to. (I'm not putting down this forum in favor of Bnet, because they are totally different. It's like comparing pizza and cake---I like both very much---but they are quite unlike)
Sooo, how do we KNOW that speaking in tongues is considered useful today? How do you go about proving that the WTS view is wrong? I also have a lot of questions about the being baptized in the spirit as opposed to water baptism (which I've done three times, LOL) I just figured that Jesus knows my heart by now and at the moment I don't feel the need to get baptized yet again. I also am housebound now and CAN'T do this again if I cared to.....so I'm puzzled.
I can't really say......but for those who feel uncomfortable in churches that do speak in tongues, could this possibly be due to the WTS view that we take with us when we leave---or that SO many things are seen as demonic and that red flag goes up when we encounter different practices?
Annie
The part of the Bible that describes speaking in tongues just confirms to me that quite a bit of the Bible is nonsense if not fraud.
We all start out life "speaking in tongues". The gurgling of a verbally frisky infant is the pre-cursor to the more coordinated word formation that comes later. There is bound to be a scientific explanation of this whole phenomenon.
If you have doubts about modern day speaking in tongues you've got to wonder about the occasions recorded in the Bible.
**We all start out life "speaking in tongues". The gurgling of a verbally frisky infant is the pre-cursor to the more coordinated word formation that comes later.
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Okaaaaaay. It is. How does THAT relate to the topic--as such? When an infant is babbling or cooing, it is learning to control the use of its mouth and the organs that are used in the next stage---actually *learning* a language.
HOW does that fit in with adults that are speaking in tongues that are not their "mother tongue"?
IF I WERE TO GO TO A CHURCH, WHICH I DOUBT WILL EVER HAPPEN, AND THEY START TO ROLL ON THE FLOOR OR SPEAK IN TONGUES, I WILL QUIETLY LEAVE AND NEVER RETURN.
Outoftheorg
Sunspot:
It has never been proven that anyone who speaks in tongues is actually speaking any known language. The infant situation is to show that humans are "speaker of words" so there must be some structure that can be tapped to produce something that sounds like language. We can all talk gibberish. Add a little group hysteria and a dash of rhythm and you too can speak in tongues. I am just suggesting that this is an area that could be examined scientifically if someone wanted to do that.
Rappers develop a repertoir of word combinations that can be used just like a jazz musician strings together cord progressions and short musical phrases to improvise on a melody. Rappers who are good at "free styling" often appear to be in an ecstatic trance.
My grandmother was in the Holiness Church up in the appalachian mountains (no she didn't handle snakes), and she spoke in tongues when she got the spirit. It wasn't any kind of language.
When i first came to conclude that the JW organization was too fundamental for me..a friend of Mine at my work who was a park ranger invited to go to a contemporary non-denominational protestant church called Bible Fellowship. I agreed..but I kept asking him, "But even though this church is contemporary..it is NOT chrasimatic, right? He asured me it was not. When I went there...I LOVED it! They had great contemporary sounding music..and yet no one was rolling on the floor or speaking in tounges. Infact, this is likley the best church i have ever visted. Later, I tried visiting another church that 'sounded much like' Bible Fellowship. It was called simply, "South Coast Fellowship." I walked in the church and into the main secturary and I noted all the different world flags hanging from the celling above. i got an uncertain feeling because i remember clearly seeing a display of flags just like this on a very strange holy roller show on TBN. But dispite my useasy feeling..I took a sit. The music started and it was good. But then this man next to me raised his hands up and started mubling to himself. I got a real freaky feeling and I just wanted to leave. I said to this man next to me, "Pardon me," and I tried to get by him...but he did not move. He kept on mumbling. I rpeaated this 2 more times...till finally he awoke from his trance-like state and stared at me as if annoyed and then he FINALLY moved. Quickly I exited towards the lobby where a friendly older women sat. She looked at me, "What's wrong, dear?" She said. i did not want to offend. So I merely asked, "Is this a FourSqaure Gospel Church?" Why yes, she answered and I guess she noticed my eyes shifted with unease and she tried to reasure me. "We are charsimatic..but we are way are considered way liter than say Assembly of God." I smiled nervoulsy and silently slipped out of there. Thing is when I went to my friend's church, Bible Fellowship, when they said they said they were a non-denominational church..it was true....but this church gave NO indication that is was a FourSqaure Gospel church or that it was a chrasimatic Church.
