by Deleted 28 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Hey KLS,
I like what Deleted is saying.I would not think of this as just a fight to get pensions and benefits to all the trusting dubs who toiled for them year after year. I would look at this as an opportunity to suck ONE AND A HALF BILLION DOLLARS out of their pockets.This could be a big OUCH to them if it happened.
POZ.
Here is the deal. Most of those going into bethel are young, and somewhat naive people who have not experienced "the real world." Not a knock on them, just they are young.
They don't fully understand the ramifications of going to bethel. Losing out on potential education, and having very weak work experience, among many others. The WTS does nothing to prepare them for the real world.
But, they usually have their parents, and certainly peers at the congregations praising them, building them up, about how wonderful it is what they are doing.
In my opinion, they don't have enough life experience to make a decision such as this that could last a long time.
Should they be paid to work there? Yes. Better yet, they should not go at all.
http://www.ed.gov/inits/americareads/resourcekit/Negotiating/wagehours.html Here's the point from the above website on the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act: FLSA Applicability to Nonprofit Service Organizations While nonprofit organizations are not generally exempt, some of their activities may fall outside FLSA coverage. The educational, religious, and similar activities of a nonprofit organization are not subject to FLSA enterprise coverage. However, if the same organization conducts commercial activities, such activities will trigger FLSA protection. Commercial activities generally constitute business endeavors that place the nonprofit organization in competition with ordinary commercial enterprises. As a rule, the Department of Labor and the courts interpret the law very broadly when determining whether an activity constitutes a commercial enterprise. The FLSA defines "commerce" simply as: trade, commerce,transportation, ransmission, or communication among the several States or between any State and any place outside thereof. In applying this definition, the courts have not limited commerce to refer to transactions where there are actual commercial sales of the goods produced and transported. Nor do courts restrict FLSA application to situations where large amounts of goods are sent outside the state where produced. If, for example, a charitable organization operates a printing and publishing plant, employees involved in these activities will find themselves under the protections provided by the wage, hour, and child labor provisions of the FLSA. AS POZ ABOVE APTLY PUT IT: I would look at this as an opportunity to suck ONE AND A HALF BILLION DOLLARS out of their pockets.This could be a big OUCH to them if it happened. Glen PS Please excuse my formatting from this computer, I don't seem to be able to get it right. PPS Just because the WTS doesn't compete on publishing projects with other publishers it is still performing interstate commerce in transporting books etc. that would normally go by commercial common carrier; it uses free labor to keep its costs down unfairly.
How in heck is your case vailid? I know when people say "non-profit" they tend to mean altruistic. But lets say you actually mean non-profit as in nobody (a quantifyable indentifyable person or sharehold) benefits from the monies collected. Not your grip is turned on its head. For you have people working for a non tangible.
Herefore the "watchtower" is not at fault because "the watchtower" gains no profit they could have 15 trillion dollars a year or -75 billion and it would not matter because the watchtower is a piece of paper that owns things. It is what happends when you have a non profit agency thats only goal is to remain a non profit agency. You may say the wts is unintentionaly like it is becaue the service it provides is simply existance.
bottom line is that the wt uses any legal way to fleese the flock . i'm sure if some hi power law firm or gov't ie france, want to take the wt down to earth it could be done. and i feel it will happen in the united states in the next 50 years. john
Bethelites get about $100/month in cash, travel money, and clothing allowance. This is the IRS tax law that applies.
http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0301901640
Citations:
Regulation No.4, Sec. 404.1024.
IRS is responsible for the detailed provisions of filing the SS-16, Certificate of Election, under section 3121 of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC).
Because IRS processes the Certificate of Election, SSA personnel should be as helpful as possible to representatives of the order but must not make commitments on behalf of IRS.
When the SS-16 is filed, the order obligates itself to:
report as wages the fair market value of any food, lodging, clothing, and any other perquisite furnished to the member (The reported amount must not be less than $100 a month); and
pay both the employer and employee share of Social Security taxes to IRS.
The order may make the effective date of the Certificate of Election the first day of:
the calendar quarter in which the certificate is filed;
the quarter after the quarter in which the certificate is filed; or
any one of 20 quarters before the quarter in which the certificate is filed.
In many orders, members expect the treasurer to handle all financial matters including Social Security. Therefore, the treasurer may request a supply of application forms from the FO. The FO may supply a reasonable quantity of Form SSA-1.
For the purpose of coverage under a Certificate of Election, the members in the order must be divided into active and inactive members. IRS uses the term ?retired?. The election covers:
all current and future active members.
members who are inactive when the election is filed but are active during the retroactive period, if any.
A religious order is a community of people living under a distinctive rule, discipline, or constitution as a monastic brotherhood or society.
Most orders or communities require a vow of chastity, obedience, and poverty, in addition to any special vows required by specific communities.
For coverage purposes, under a Certificate of Election, a member of a religious order means any individual who:
A member of an order is often referred to as ?a religious.?
The term ?the religious? is used collectively to refer to persons who are members of a religious order.
For coverage purposes, an autonomous subdivision is the entity:
A member is considered inactive because of old age if the order has:
A member of an order that does not have a retirement plan is considered inactive because of old age if it is reasonable to do so considering the services performed by the individual and the given circumstances.
To determine this consider the following:
Note: Usually an individual who reduces the amount of services performed by at least 75% is considered inactive.
A member is inactive due to total disability when:
Usually, medical evidence is required to establish the inactive status.
Questions of whether a member is inactive usually arise when a claim for benefits is filed shortly after an order elects coverage.
Members may appear to have become inactive just after acquiring insured status. This may be attributed to coincidence or a misunderstanding.
At the discretion of its management, the FO may use the following guidelines to determine if the inactive status is a coincidence or may develop each claim:
| If the Community Membership is: | And no more than |
| 25 or less | 2 members become inactive in the retroactive period |
| between 25 and 100 | 3 members become inactive in the retroactive period |
| 100 or more members | 5 members become inactive in the retroactive period |
Members of a religious order who work outside the order for an organization not affiliated with the order or its supervising church are employees of the third party.
A member engaged in such work is not performing duties required by the order.
Social Security Ruling 81-38 holds that such services performed in a secular setting are not excluded from the definition of employment under section 210(a)(8)(A) of the Act.
A member is considered an agent of the order when the member is directed by the order to perform services for another agency of the supervising church or an associated institution.
These services are performed in the exercise of duties required by the order.
A member is not considered an agent of the order when the member performs services with a third party not affiliated with the order or the supervising church. The member is an employee of the third party even when under a vow of poverty and the order requires the member to perform services for the third party.
Earnings are considered wages even though they may be given to the order.
Yes, they should!
But, will they?! Not in a million years, if they can help it.
DY
Just because the WTS is non-profit (as well as non-prophet) it should not excuse them from federal laws when they apply. When commerce crosses state boundaries then federal law (in this case the FSLA) kicks in. Why should the rest of the country fund the gap in taxes the WTS should pay? The WTS has known for at least 25 years that its predictions are bogus and it is withholding information from its adherents. Why should the WTS gain on the backs of its naive young people?
[Posters, I realize this is a huge stretch, but it would cripple the WTS' cash flow and stop all this nonsense]
And just to reiterate the point. Here's the XScientology connection that got me down this path:
http://discus.xenu.net/discus/messages/730/1389.html?1005529203
If they are smart they can work their way into a department that offers some tech training...I have a guy that works for me sometimes that learned how to become a programmer there, and after he left with a few years experience at least he has some marketable skills.
I am not sure how easy it is to get into departments for such training...but at least he was smart enough to do that. I wish they did at least give them minimum wage, but you know, what can I say..these guys have everything done for them...cooking cleaning, laundry...I am not saying it is easy there, but how can they be volunteers without sacrifice? this is their great sacrifice...my heart really doesn't bleed for the ones there today, but I do feel bad for those that went in the years past. I think many JWs today realize they need to have skills in the real world too to get by until the "end of the times".
We all make choices
