deleted : wow that site you linked has a lot of info that is applable to the wt > it's a lot to read and i'll need to finish it. i think it's totally possible these interstate commerce laws may soon hurt groups like the wt, keep in mind the more ppl complain to the gov't , the loop holes these religious groups use can be closed . didn't the wt go from $14or $20 a month to $100 a month for bethelites. because of some law precribing it. if not for that law bethelites would still be getting $20 A MONTH i'm sure. it seens that church scandels are coming more and more to the forefront. people are getting tired of getting suckered. are these people really sueing the scientoligists, or some kind of other court action. if so i think it will affect the wt and others. john
Should the WTS be paying minimum wage & taxes for full-time volunteers?
by Deleted 28 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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Deleted
John,
I have been digging around on the Net to find something more recent and I am at the point of just emailing some Scientologist boards to see how this has progessed since 2001. According to my research so far with the Dept of Labor there's a 3 year statute of labor on wilfull intent to bypass the federal Fair Labor Standards Act.
[My totally lay position is that naive young people are coerced into taking a vow of poverty through compounded lies and groupthink and are stuck, dependent on the WTS system with no hope of even social security to fall back on. As such all full-time workers of the WTS are due minimum wage if they worked in commercial positions such as the factory and distribution. At that point taxes would be due, and room and board at bethel would be taxable. Even if the bethelites returned their net payroll to the WTS about half of it would go in the form of taxes of one sort or other. The net result is some money toward old age for the past and future bethelites, the government would get its share and the WTS would be out hundreds of millions, at least. I would also argue that this could go deeper such as property taxes on factory property, use taxes on purchases, fines and interest, legal fees, and retirement funds for long-term service.]
My current "Amway Math" on this part only goes like this:
Bethelites who served the WTS within the prior 3 years, as a result of a class-action lawsuit receive minimum wages for 3 years. I assume there are 10,000 people in the western world that falls into this category. So here's goes the math :
10,000 employees for 3 years = 30,000 times an average of $5.00 per hour for 40 hours for 50 weeks =
30000 x 5 x 40 x 50 = $300 million
$300 million, plus 50% in taxes = $450 million, by the time the bethelites and the WTS pay their taxes that's $225 million to the governments, free money and not from our pockets.
I don't see this as a question of choice - you are either subject to federal law or you're not. The FLSA keeps getting refined. Most recent is a tighter definition of who is exempt from overtime pay, for example.
I agree with you this is an area ripe for change. There's been hundreds of thousands full-time unpaid sales people who have given from their need to create a multi-billion dollar empire. The WTS leaders have been disingenious with their employees, adherents, the governments and the world at large. It's time to pay up.
Best regards,
Glen
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RR
I haven't read the thread only the first post. I think what the Society neds to do is give their workers a better salary, minimum wage? okay, maybe not. As long as they take care of all their physical and temporal needs. Their fed three meals aday, how about free transportation to and from their meeting assignments. buying them clothes, giving them a vacation. With all the branch offices in the world, a bethelite could enjoy a free place to stay while enjoying time of.
How about paying into their social security so when they do retire, tey have something to show for it.
Now I never worked at bethel. But I did work at the DAWN Bible Students in New Jersey for 18 months (while still a JW, long story) and they fed me well, paid me 300.00 a month which was the average salary for everyone, AND they paid my taxes. 300 bucks!!! that's more than a bethlite will ever see, what are they now at 85.00?
RR
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loveis
Actually, another government of the world already tried it, but to no avail:
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yb97 pp. 15-16 Jehovah?s Witnesses?1997 Yearbook Report ***An unusual six-year legal fight came to a positive conclusion in Brazil during this service year. In November 1990, Brazil?s National Institute of Social Insurance notified the Society?s branch office that henceforth the 853 (now 1,150) members of the Bethel family there would not be viewed as religious ministers and so would come under the country?s labor laws. A long legal battle began. Happily, on June 7, 1996, the Judicial Advisory of the Office of the Attorney General in BrasÃlia issued a decision upholding the position of members of the Bethel family as religious ministers working as full-time volunteers.
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w98 12/1 pp. 21-22 Legally Protecting the Good News ***Brazil.
In November 1990, Brazil?s National Institute of Social Security (INSS) notified the branch office of the Watch Tower Society that volunteer ministers at Bethel (the name of branch facilities of Jehovah?s Witnesses) would no longer be viewed as religious ministers and would therefore come under Brazil?s labor laws. The Witnesses appealed the decision. On June 7, 1996, the Judicial Advisory of the Office of the Attorney General in BrasÃlia issued a decision upholding the position of ministers at Bethel as members of a legitimate religious order, not as secular employees. -
Deleted
Good stuff everybody - both pros and cons, thanks. Any who posted privately and any others that would like to work on developing a brief for submission to ??? please email me at [email protected] Thanks!
RR, do you have the longer story on a "JW working with Dawn people"? sounds interesting. I have a soft spot for those who considered Rutherford the Evil Slave and left in the 20's, or so.
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RR
I was formally introduced to the JWs in 1982, got baptized in 1983, learned about the Bible Students in 1985, but didn't have contact with them till 1988, for two years I corresponded with just about every Bible Student group here and abroad befriending many, asking lots of questions.
I got married in 1990 and in 1991 I was layed off due to the Reagan recession. I was unemployed for 18 months. I had a job interview in Rutherford, New Jersey just around the corner from the DAWN. So I decided to go over there afterwards, I got to meet everyone. They invited me to stay for lunch and I hung out till closing. I couldn't find work, interviews were at a null, over a thousand resumes sent out had 6 responses, and three interviews, two with the same company in Rutherford. To keep myself from going crazy, I hung out at the DAWN helping out, George Jeuck who was the general manager at the time, (he's died since then) told me, "we might as well put you on the payroll." and so I did bookkeeping for them (I was an accountant), and inventory control, stocking, cleaning, packing, mailing, filling in orders, the works. Even had my own key to the place to open and close. Hey even wore Pastor Russell's hat, yeah, they had one sitting around on a shelf.
The best part was when I was asked if I could do back calls on people in my neighborhood. So after field service, when we broke up for return visits, back calls or Bible studies, I went to visit subscribers to the DAWN or people who ordered literature in the past. I became a pioneer for the DAWN ... lol.
Towards the end of my time with the JW's, I went door toe end would pass out DAWN literature.
RR
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RR, that's priceless! Did you get better response with the Dawn mags than the Watchtower? Do you still go to Bible Students meetings? There's a convention about 10 miles from where I live in Oregon in late August http://www.portlandbiblestudents.org. Glen
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RR
Yep ... I still do, I have too, I serve as an elder in the local class here in New Jersey. Up to recently, I was one of the editors of "The Herald of Christ's Kingdom, a bi-monthly journal published by the Pastoral Bible Institute, Inc., in 1918 by the four ousted WTS directors.
If you go to the Portland convention, you'll bump into Jerry Leslie, if you do, take a picture of BanAmburgh with you. they're identical, and they should be, Jerry is VanAmburgh's great nephew. VanAmburgh's family were ALL Bible Students. They never joined Rutherford.
We also have the Bible Students Retirement Center in that area.
RR
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