Why Have Memorial if...

by Sweetp0985 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  heathen

  sweetpea--- The society claims that some of those appointed over the WTBTS became the evil slave class thus leaving the opportunity for newly elected anointed to replace the others.

  The way I see the ritual is that it is an actual dinner that is to be eaten together with the congregation . Jesus did not only pass a cup of wine and a loaf of bread around he and his apostles actually had dinner first . Not everyone is sanctified to partake as the apostle Paul did warn that one must be completely and totally pure in the faith or else they will eat and drink judgement against themselves .Still it is up to the individual to determine their spirituallity . IMHO
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  Sweetp0985

  Ok so if some fall away and become the evil slave that's -1 amd then replaced +1. The numbers in the Proclaimers book jumped with a difference of 200-700 people within a 5 yr span. for ex. in 1935 lets say 15,000 people partook. In 1940 14,300 partook, but then in 1945 its jumps up past the original number with like 15,700. Where did these extra people come from. I wish I had the book with me so I could post a exact quote. But I just found it a little odd.
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  Bubbamar

  This is why JWs are so interested in the anointed partaker count, its a gauge for Armeggedon. 8000 to go.

  This is just speculation....but do you think the JW's would ever be like some of the other "suicide cults" and get the 8000 to do themselves in so that armageddon could come?! (and not look stupid with another failed doctrine)

  I know that's crazy - but I do believe that most would do it if the WT said to.

  But wait....is that crazy?
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  ezekiel3

  This is just speculation....

  Absolutely true, but no different from 1975, or forecasting the end based on the generation that saw 1914. Please consider these points when discussing JWs and the End:

  1) The JW thrives and needs urgency. The "end is near!" is what motivates and stirs up the R&F. The only thing that s comes close to this is getting converts and that isn't happening much in the western world.

  2.) If you heard the 2004 Memorial talk, it was 25% Jesus and 75% DON'T PARTAKE IF YOU ARE NOT ANOINTED. The elders do not have to count partakers if the elders consider someone to be too new or loony. Also multiple WT articles pushed the issue of partaking leading up to the Memorial. The GB wants the number to go down because they look like fools over the wavering counts and because it will promote urgency.

  3) Notice that the greatest increase in JW members happen around crisis times (even if the crisis is invented by the GB) recently: pre-1975, early 1990s (based on the 1914 generation). The numbers are stagnant now. What do JWs need to grow? Another crisis.

  Thus my speculation: the GB is hoping the number of anointed partakers decreases. Trust me, if it goes below 4,000 it will become a neo-sign: proof that the end is on our doorstep and spurring the R&F out into the streets to convert yet another group of suckers.
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  heathen

  sweetpea--- that's a good point .The 1935 cut off date doesn't seem to work there. I say who knows when and who are seems to be something that can't be defined accurately . There were plenty of anointed in the 1st century who were excomunicated from the church or left of their own free will . The WTBTS has been playing russian rulette with the world for some time now and at every turn proved to be an empty chamber . Meaning that the world is still here .

  Bubbamar--- I don't think suicide is something that God would approve of . What they can do is send all those professing to be anointed to countries that are extremely hostile . I think that would thin the numbers out some . I'm just saying that nothing stopped the early christians from going to the 4 corners of the earth . The apostle Paul went to some of the most hostile nations to ever walk the planet . Revelations does specify that the 144k are killed by the axe .
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  undercover

  Ok so if some fall away and become the evil slave that's -1 amd then replaced +1. The numbers in the Proclaimers book jumped with a difference of 200-700 people within a 5 yr span. for ex. in 1935 lets say 15,000 people partook. In 1940 14,300 partook, but then in 1945 its jumps up past the original number with like 15,700. Where did these extra people come from. I wish I had the book with me so I could post a exact quote. But I just found it a little odd.

  If the number was, for argument sake, 100 and one fell away, that would be 99. Replace him and it becomes 100 again. Apparently younger ones are being used to replace older ones who die because the ratio of anointed dying off does not match the ratio of their peers from the same period dying off. In fact, that's the WTS excuse. Some have fallen away and have to be replaced. That explains the different ratios. How do we know that they have fallen away and are being replaced? Because the ratios are different. Now for the years that the numbers actually went up, apparently some in heaven didn't pass angel boot camp or early members changed teams. They have to be replaced. They are replaced by faithful ones still on earth. How do we know? The numbers went up some years.
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  BluesBrother

  *** jv chap. 33 p. 717 Continuing to Keep on the Watch ***

  Year Att. Part.

  1935 ...... 63,146 ... 52,465

  1940 ...... 96,989 ... 27,711

  1945 ..... 186,247 ... 22,328

  1950 ..... 511,203 ... 22,723

  1955 ..... 878,303 ... 16,815

  1960 ... 1,519,821 ... 13,911

  1965 ... 1,933,089 ... 11,550

  1970 ... 3,226,168 ... 10,526

  1975 ... 4,925,643 ... 10,550

  1980 ... 5,726,656 .... 9,564

  1985 ... 7,792,109 .... 9,051

  1992 .. 11,431,171 .... 8,683

  Memorial

  Attendance and Partakers

  There have been anomalies in the numbersof partakers, most spectacularly in recent years since this table was prepared. The report for 2003 was 8565 partakers, just 121 elderly ministers snuffed it over 11 years!.. If you raise the point they usually blame it on well intentioned but mistaken brothers in latin and African countries who think they are anointed but are not really .

  (SweetP - good luck in your head to head , give em hell!)
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  Sweetp0985

  thank you bluesbrother for that post, I had brought my Proclaimers book (not actually mine, checked it out from the library) but on pg 717 was what I wanted to post.

  Sometimes you hear something said once and then when you hear again you remember the first time you heard it. And this saying I've been hearing "ALOT" lately is:"Wait and see how the ends gonna be", or something of that nature, but basically it is saying just wait and see how it will turn out. And lately, I've come to a mental decision in my personal matter and I prayed that if I'm wrong about the things we've been discussing on this board, then I pray for forgiveness. But I have found too many inconsistences with the JW organization and if we're all wrong God forgive us, but if we're all right, please deliver those still trapped like I was.

  I just wish I could talk to and relate the things I've learned from this board to some of the people I love and care about that still in the borg and help them to see whats going on but at the same time if I'm wrong then I don't want to be a "stumbling block".

  It erks me so much how they always have an excuse or some JW "reason" for everything that you can prove to them that is wrong. Or like my mom told me, it may be incorrect but where else you gonna go? I'd rather be in a wrong church than be in a religion that directs your every move and when you move outside the box you're cut off from everyone. Sorry about the ranting but I'm just so so so ummm....sick of all this bull crap. Ok that's enough..i'm gone now....
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  JosephMalik

  Bad as all this is you have not heard the worst of it. All JW?s that deny Christ at this public meeting and memorial are condemning themselves. Notice:

  Mt 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

  Lu 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: 9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

  Time to wake up folks.

  Joseph
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  Bubbamar

  it may be incorrect but where else you gonna go?

  dancing, skydiving, 6-Flags, rollerblading, a movie, dinner, COLLEGE, shopping, home to watch Thursday night prime time TV, coffee with a friend, skiing, swimming, the gym, mountain climbing, to bed early, on a date, surf the internet, Fiji....to name just a few things.

  The black and white thinking is so sad. Too bad she has no other options than to stay in a destructive cult.