evolution VS. creation

by doogie 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  XQsThaiPoes

  If evolution is predetermined than it is just a change of states of a gene pool. No different than water boiling or freezing.

  Directed evolution is No different than creation if you reach your goal. If you fail then maybe it could be considered evolution.

  Unless I have been out of the loop too long genetic change is not considered evolution by most scientist. Lamarckian evolution it is funny that you would stretch to loop it in here. If I am so wrong why put your self out on a limb. You might as well have said cosmic evolution.

  I assumed we were talking about some form of Darwinian based evolution that is undirected and due to natural means causes one specise to become another over time, not gene pool fluctuations caused by anything be it God, Man, Space aleins, Time travelers, or Natural processes.
• 

  Crazy151drinker

  Well the creationists wouldnt sound so stupid if they would stop claiming that the grand canyon is only a couple of thosuand years old.

  You can have both God and Evolution.
• 

  Crazy151drinker

  Noah took two of every kind of land animal (seven of the ?clean? ones) on board an ocean-liner?sized Ark ? this included dinosaurs. For more information, see How did all the animals fit on Noah?s Ark?

  After the Flood, the descendants of those dinosaurs existed for a while with humans, and there seem to be eye-witness accounts of them, e.g. in Job 40:15 ff. and in the many dragon legends found around the world.

  Eventually they all died out, except for possible rare sightings in uninhabited areas which have not been properly verified. The causes were probably no more dramatic than those that cause extinctions of other species, e.g. man?s hunting, change of climate, loss of food source, fragmentation of habitat.

  This is the crap that makes creationists look like fools.

  So noah and his family build an oceanliner sized ship out of wood and in their spare time cruise around kidnapping T-rex's? Yeah right.
• 

  truthseeker1

  LOL!

  Those links are a great laugh! Dinosaurs on the Arks! I love it. It adds SOOOOO much credability to your arguments. Face it, There is NO way to prove creation through science. Its a faith based answer to how we as humans got here on earth. It uses NO science at all. So there is no debate. There are two totally different platforms.

  If you want a scientific answer to how humans came into being, you have evolution. If you don't, you have creation. Can't you just leave it at that?
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  seattleniceguy

  Hey doogie, be sure to check out those pro-creationist sites. Then compare them to the information available on sites like TalkOrigins.org (which I just want to plug again - it is spectacular!). Then ask yourself: Which group is really being honest with the available data?

  One thing that was very interesting to me was learning about how Darwin came to his understanding of evolution. He was a fundamentalist Christian at the time he sailed on the Beagle. In fact, his fellow sailors made fun of him for constantly referring to the Bible as the absolute authority on matters. He describes in his journal how the observations he made on that journey led him to question the Genesis account, how in spite of his religious beliefs he began to feel that when he honestly looked at the evidence, gradualism made more sense.

  Of course, I'm not endorsing evolution because of any person; a theory stands or falls on its own merits. But Darwin's experience resonates with mine: I did not want to question the Witnesses or the Bible, but reason forced me to do it. I had to be loyal to reality, not to what I wanted to believe. This is the attitude of science, and I think that if you study evolution you will find that evolutionary theories have been arrived at through this same dedication to see what is there, not what our parents or church said was there.

  Start at the FAQs at TalkOrigins. You can't go wrong.

  SNG
• 

  seattleniceguy

  To carry on in the spirit of funkyderek...This is mostly for the benefit of those who have not yet availed themselves of TalkOrigins.org.

  If evolution is predetermined than it is just a change of states of a gene pool. No different than water boiling or freezing.

  Not sure what you're driving at. Evolution is definined as changes in the gene pool, whether or not it is predetermined. In that it is a fact of the natural world, yes, it is no different than water freezing or boiling.

  Directed evolution is No different than creation if you reach your goal. If you fail then maybe it could be considered evolution.

  Perhaps you feel that evolution must by definition rule out intelligence. This is not the case. Evolution is simply the name for changes in genes in a population. This definitely happens. There are other theories to describe why and how exactly it happens, but they only try to explain evolution. Regardless of whether there's a man in the sky pulling strings or not, it's still evolution.

  Unless I have been out of the loop too long genetic change is not considered evolution by most scientist.

  Genetic change is the very foundation of evolution. Evolution does not occur except by genetic change.

  Lamarckian evolution it is funny that you would stretch to loop it in here. If I am so wrong why put your self out on a limb. You might as well have said cosmic evolution.

  I don't understand what you're driving at here. The failure of Lamarckian evolution has nothing to do with whether or not evolution occurs. It is simply an example of one mechanism by which it definitely does not occur.

  I assumed we were talking about some form of Darwinian based evolution that is undirected and due to natural means causes one specise to become another over time, not gene pool fluctuations caused by anything be it God, Man, Space aleins, Time travelers, or Natural processes.

  That's just the point: evolution is simply a change in gene pools over time, which results in new species, and such speciation has been observed. Natural selection, genetic drift, flush-founder, etc, are simply theories about the mechanisms by which evolution takes place. You could add God or Space Aliens to that list of mechanisms if you could produce compelling evidence. But that wouldn't change the basic fact that evolution is a natural process.

  SNG
• 

  ThiChi

  Understand and fight the lie:

  http://www-acs.ucsd.edu/~idea/evolutionfaq.htm