back to basics

by cnn77 41 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Francois

  Perhaps we're all shooting in the dark here. We seem all to be assuming that the entire Adam and Eve story is literally, totally, utterly true. What if it isn't?

  There is no evidence that the Hebrews had any written language until the time of Soloman. That means that the Hebrew history was merely an oral tradition. And an oral tradition isn't worth the paper it's written on.

  I really do think that if we all concentrated on observing the two commandments of Jesus and forgot all about all this theological nit-picking about original sin, the atonement doctrine, a Messiah, the EXACT second some boob thinks armageddon is gonna pop, and all that other unknowable, unproveable stuff we'd all be a LOT better off. Wouldn't we?

  Francois

  Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.
• 

  Black Man

  Up..........
• 

  Mulan

  Isn't anyone going to comment on the story I posted, that the District Overseer told. I can't believe no one said anything about it.

  Or.....about the way the nations around Israel practiced child sacrifice and then Abraham was asked to offer up his son?

  Anyone?
• 

  reagan_oconnor

  Mulan; sorry, I got lost reading AlanF's post (which was excellent, by the way).

  I remember the exact same story related by a ministerial servant in a talk once. I was very young, maybe 10-12 years old, and that story had a major impact on me. I remember thinking, "Wow, the love that Jehovah had for us, sacrificing his own son so that we can attain everlasting life." It was really the first time that I'd had a conscious thought about the ransom sacrifice.

  More than anything, it made me feel guilty for not appreciating it enough. Now that I look back on it, I can't believe that they used such tactics to scare/guilt us.

  --Reagan

  "I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul."
• 

  Black Man

  I'm pushing this back up because this has been just about the most troubling thing for me in Bible Reading. Jehovah's justice overshadowing his love to the detriment of humanity disturbs. I seriously struggle with viewing the Ransom as pointless because of this situation. Jehovah's empowering Satan to take his issue to universal levels vexes me. Sprit creatures (Jehovah, Satan and others) obsession with testing and playing a game of chess with the human race bothers me. And we're supposed to rejoice and appreciate the fact that Jehovah provided the Ransom sacrifice for us? I hope this thread gets some other comments on it, because I'm still struggling with this. I really can't get past this and consider the rest of the bible until I resolve this issue within myself.
• 

  SixofNine

  Black Man said,

  Jehovah's justice overshadowing his love to the detriment of humanity disturbs.

  And therein lies an even bigger dilema; it certainly isn't any real kind of justice, once you meditate on it.

  I remember always being reminded (by myself), of what an ingrate I must be, since I didn't really get any deep emotional "warmies" contemplating the ransom sacrifice. I would become especially aware of this a memorial time. So, I set out to really try and muster up some emotion- - to really get down and meditate on it all.

  Couldn't do it. Any way you slice it, God's son was to be raised from the dead in 3 days time. It isa hard lot to have gone through, physically speaking, but unfortunate bastards on this earth go thru that much and more every day on this planet. Innocent children spend their first few days suffering, and then die. Their parents never know when or if they will ever see them again.

  I admit, I just don't get it.
• 

  Mulan

  Here is another question I asked over and over again, through the years, and no one could ever give me a satisfactory answer: "If Jesus came to the earth to die a ransom, why were the Jews condemned for killing him?"

  I assumed there was a logical answer for it, and just pushed it back on the shelf, but too much got stacked on that shelf, with Abraham sacrificing Isaac, Lot having sex with his daughters (gross), Lot offering his daughters to the mob, Rachel and Leah giving their maids to Jacob for childbearing, etc. etc. Too much didn't add up, and still doesn't. No one can answer those questions for me, in a way that makes sense.
• 

  cnn77

  Blackman- you and I are in exactly the same boat.

  I feel like such a faithless individual. I have sat around for many years now feeling like there was something wrong with me for feeling this way. How does one take feelings - exactly like those you expressed in your post to an elder and say: "help me through this please". I have tried but they look at me like I am Satan incarnate. If I could get past this I feel I might be able to get back to being active again. You put into words very well exactly what I feel....although many would say it is too "in your face".

  Thanks
• 

  larc

  First off, I think the Adam and Eve thing is a myth, but let's assume it was true. Why would God have to put his son through misery to someday bring people back to perfection. All God would have had to do 2000 years ago, or at any time for that matter, would be to declare in a loud booming voice to all of mankind that he had now decided to wipe away all sin. Since God is all powerful he could have easily have done that. Believe me, if every person on earth would have heard him, they would have become instant believers. There would no need for Jesus' torturous death, and no need to spread the gospel under the seige of persecution. The gospel would have been there instantaneously with God's, convincing declaration.

  Something to think about.
• 

  SixofNine

  cnn, you said,

  I have sat around for many years now feeling like there was something wrong with me for feeling this way. How does one take feelings - exactly like those you expressed in your post to an elder and say: "help me through this please". I have tried but they look at me like I am Satan incarnate. [

  I'll give you a tip that will make your life immensely easier. What the hell does an elder know, that you don't? What information do they have, that you don't have access to? Do they have a more direct line to Jah in their prayers? No, of course not.

  So now you are completely free of the myth of the elder. Feels good doesn't it? You will never have to share anything with an elder more spiritually deep than "hey Frank, how are the wife and kids?" They may not be able to answer that correctly.