Those big bad Bible Students (page 13)

RR:
That isn't entirely fair. Every group has it's own definitions of "in" phrases and words (hence my query about classes). You have a rare opportunity (especially whilst some folks are showing any interest) to show that the BS's bear little real resemblance to the JW's (a belief, that they are similar, is likely keeping many from bothering to delve into said research). You can squander that opportunity, if you wish...

I personally have no time for "end times theology", prefering to treat each day like my last, and if and when he comes, then so-be-it. All the speculation of dates and "signs" has become a turn-off to me (as was a lecture I heard last night where 2Tim.3:1-5 was hoisted), in contrast to the preoccupation that it was before.

The issues of "Christian liberty v's cultish behaviours" are of far more interest to me, and you appear to have covered the rudiments of that.

RR

LT, this is a deep subject, and one that cannot be explained in two paragraphs, if I were to make a long posst on this subject, how many would actually read it. People have been quoting the Pastor from www.ctrussell.us, is it so hard to go and type in "1799"?

Who is to say what I write isn't going to be questioned because of "in phrases"?

I don't have time to make lengthy post on one-liners by minimus and others, right now, I'm packing up to go on vacation, and when I get back, it will be time to go back to work after a three month hiatus of taking care of my son. I won't have much time to post.

You have a good day!

RR

LittleToe

Fair do's, dude.
Have a great break

Every blessing, in Christ....

hillary_step

Gumby,

But.....what if what a person believes in, brings him/her harm?

If that person was not coerced into the belief of something that might harm them, then that is their choice, and policing their decisions is not the responibility of society. For example, everybody knows that smoking is harmful to ones health, but smoking is only banned in areas where it could cause harm to non-smokers. People still smoke, even though they know it may kill them, it is their decision to do so and their business *until* their decisons encroach on the rights of others.

What if their belief causes them to live in a way they might have lived different had they not believed the way they do? Suppose a christian altered their lifestyle because of a bible date they believed in was short at hand and they did like the dubs did.........more preaching, no higher education, etc?

If a person is coerced or manipulated into believing something that is harmful to them, then this should be monitored as I noted in my posts above. However, the Bible Students it seems, do not coerce or manipulate anybody to believe their doctrines, in fact according to RR even basic doctrines can be openly challenged by their adherents. This of course is impossible within the WTS. If the WTS changed their policy and allowed their adherents the right of dissent or disagreement with its fundamental doctrines, then I would have no issue with them existing. They would then be just fall into the category of yet another another quacky but benign religion.

Best regards - HS

frankiespeakin

HS,

I agree but would like to add,, I think we do a good service when we have been decieved by the WT and Russells teaching, if we take time to expose the lies and manipulation for other to see. Russell in his writtings leaves plenty of ammunition for us to do so,,the paper trail is enormous.

Tashawaa

RR - you have proven one thing... BS are different from JWs.

As a JW, I would have been more than happy to answer questions, and give a scripture. I "spoon fed" many. I use to be very active in informal and in the ministry.

So if I had been asked as a JW, do you believe we're living in the last days? I would have given them the old' "signs" line. That we'll see the "end of this system"... blah blah blah.

You don't even give the MOST basic answer. Nadda, nothing. "Go look it up yourself", is the best you can come up with?????

Give me a break. If you are representative of the BS, I have NO INTEREST. You are definately an elder.

hillary_step

Frankie,

I agree but would like to add,, I think we do a good service when we have been decieved by the WT and Russells teaching, if we take time to expose the lies and manipulation for other to see. Russell in his writtings leaves plenty of ammunition for us to do so,,the paper trail is enormous.

My own argument does not rest of *what* a person believes but whether that belief has been coerced and manipulated so that they are decieved into that belief. This holds as true for any discipline, whether it be religion, politics, corporate life or social life.

The WTS coerce and manipulate information decieving potential adherents into a frame of mind from whence they become inducted. They have used Russell's teachings to do this. The Bible Students however, at least according to RR, allow open dissention, even with fundamental doctrines. Against this backdrop they cannot be said to have coerced or manipulated information to deceive anybody at all.

That what they believe is imho as bizzare, perhaps even more bizzare, as anything the WTS teaches is not part of my argument as the world is absolutely filled with lunatic beliefs and belief systems. By all means expose their teachings as false, but they certainly do not fall into the same category of a dangerous belief system as the WTS, at least according to the methodology of belief explained by RR, and this needs to be recognized.

Best regards - HS

gitasatsangha

You don't even give the MOST basic answer. Nadda, nothing. "Go look it up yourself", is the best you can come up with?????
Give me a break. If you are representative of the BS, I have NO INTEREST. You are definately an elder

You prefer your theology spoon-fed to you? RR is at most, suggesting you take a Berean attitude to it. What is so wrong with that? I see this over and over, especially on this forum, people who are so burned out on their experiences in the witnesses that they are bitter and lash out at anything that smacks of organized religion, much less has anything even remotely connected to the witnesses. It's not for me to be judgemental on whether someone wants to live that way or not, but it is sad when someone who is expressing their own views, while trying not to be preachy, get's called "an elder" for his trouble.

gitasatsangha

LT,

Often while reading your posts, I sometimes wish I had been able to discover the nature of Christianity, as you have discoverd it. I don't have a feeling of envy, per se, just an admiration that you are one of those people, who were able to find the Way. I didn't find it, but I perhaps found soemthing elsewhere. Anyway, it's always a pleasure to read your posts.

Those big bad Bible Students

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