Those big bad Bible Students

by RR 139 Replies latest jw friends

  • RR
    RR
    How do you view others who haven't "consecrated" and yet claim to be members of the "body of Christ" (for example in various other denominations)?

    "Consecration" is another term for being spirit-begotten. If you claim to have given your life to the Lord and show it by your lifestyle, then who are we to say, "no, you're not consecrated!"? Russell often referred to others outrside of his movement as "brethren." Our Cathoic brethren, our baptist brethren, etc. We don'tclaim to have a monopoly on the Body of Christ. Do we believe we have the truth? Yes, do we claim to have ALL truth? Nope, that's obvious from our writings and association as a whole.

    Can you also give me a list of the various "class distinctions" that you make? You've alluded to a few here, but I'm also curious as to whom you label such (setting aside the obvious "Christ will judge" exclaimers).

    To be honest with you, I can't say there are any real labels. Thereare labels we believe to be scriptural, but we don't go tossing them around. Are you looking for something specific? "Chistiandom" "babylon", what?

    RR

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    RR:

    We don'tclaim to have a monopoly on the Body of Christ. Do we believe we have the truth? Yes, do we claim to have ALL truth? Nope, that's obvious from our writings and association as a whole.

    That's comforting to hear.

    Regarding labels, I guess I'm wondering what "class" distinctions are made.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    That was the most attractive thing about Russell to me, when I was leaving the borg, to read Russell's quasi-eucumenical statements on the Body of Christ. Aside from his bias towards the Adventists as being best represented in the present Church, I found his belief of the Body of Christ being distributed throughout Christendom very refreshing, as well as his belief that the Body should appear to be "headless" in terms of human leadership (a view that imho was undermined by the later growth of the FWS doctrine).

  • RR
    RR

    Littletoe,no offense, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "class distinctions"

    RR

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    RR:
    No offense taken, and hopefully none given.

    I'm really just refering to your following comments, earlier in this thread:

    Well, we don't have an official lingo like the JW's do and we don't toss those who leave into second death. Since only those who consecrate and sin against the holy spirit are guilty of second death. And of course only those who deny Jesus, can fall into such a group. Thus when someone begins to study/fellowship with us and then disappear or leave, it is a general thought that "they were not called of the Lord" or perhaps they counted the cost (of consecration) and the cost was too high. So we will see them in the kingdom as perfect human beings.

    If they consecrated and profess to be spirit begotten and leave, I believe the general view is that they are now in the great company class, which is a secondary spiritual class in heaven who fell short of their crowns or "crown losers". However, you'd find it hard press to get anyone actual one of their brethren as such. Since only the Lord knows for sure who goes where. Of course as in all groups, you have extremist.

    I so far can identify three "classes" from what you've written, and have no doubt there's a crowned class in there, too. How do YOU usually name said classes, and are there any more in your theology?

  • Tashawaa
    Tashawaa

    In the III Volume in the Studies in the Scriptures "Thy Kingdom Come"... I've pasted a short summary of the "dates":

    They have shown us that since 1873 we have been living in the seventh millennium; that the lease of Gentile dominion, "The Times of the Gentiles," will expire with the year 1914; and that the advent of him whose right it is to take the dominion was due in 1874. They have shown us that in the days of these Gentile kings, before their lease of power expires, the God of heaven will set up a Kingdom, and that the setting up of that Kingdom has actually been in progress since the year 1878; that there the resurrection of all the dead in Christ was due; and that therefore, since that date, not only is our Lord and Head invisibly present in the world, but all these holy messengers are also with him. And observe, farther, that this date of the resurrection of the dead in Christ parallels the date of the resurrection of the Head of the body. Our Lord's resurrection occurred three and a half years after his advent as the Messiah, in A. D. 29; and the resurrection of his body, the Church, we have seen, was due in the year 1878, three and a half years after his second advent, in October 1874.
    We have marked, too, the fixed dates to which the Prophet Daniel calls attention. The 2,300 days point to 1846 as the time when God's sanctuary would be cleansed of the defiling errors and principles of Papacy; and we have noted the cleansing there accomplished. We have noted the fulfilment of the 1,260 days, or the time, times and half a time, of Papacy's power to persecute, and the beginning there, in 1799, of the Time of the End. We have seen how the 1,290 days marked the beginning of an understanding of the mysteries of prophecy in the year 1829, culminating in the great movement of 1844 known as the Second-Advent movement, when, according to the Lord's prediction, the wise virgins went forth to meet the Bridegroom, thirty years prior to his actual coming. We have seen the fulfilment of the predicted tarrying; and for fifteen years the midnight cry, "Behold the Bridegroom!" has gone forth. We have marked with special delight the 1,335 days, pointing, as they do, to 1874 as the exact date of our Lord's return; and we have since that time experienced the very blessedness promised ? through the clearer unfoldings of the wonderful mysteries of the divine plan.

    Then we have seen the great harvest work, in its appointed time and order, beginning in the autumn of the year 1874, gradually and silently, but rapidly, progressing. We have marked the bundling and binding of the tares, and the gathering of the wheat. And what blessing and joy come to us in the assurance that since the summer of 1878, when the King took his great power and began his reign by the resurrection of those who slept in Jesus, it is no longer needful that his members should "sleep" and wait for glory, but that for each the moment of finishing his course in death is the moment of the joyful "change" to the full perfection of the divine nature and likeness.

    So, RR, do you believe these things that Russell wrote? or "has the light gotten brighter" for the BS also?

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    The biggest insult was to have an athiest lead the praise and worship service, and everyone including the sponsors seemed pleased with that! It wasa mockery!

    Who was that?( the athiest) Who are the sponsers?

    E.

  • RR
    RR

    LT

    I so far can identify three "classes" from what you've written, and have no doubt there's a crowned class in there, too. How do YOU usually name said classes, and are there any more in your theology?

    Okay, I see. We basically have four groups:

    1. 144,000 - the little flock, the body of christ, they reign with Christ on thrones
    2. Great Company - "crown Losers", they failed in giving their all. They serve before the throne
    3. Second Death - These fail all together, they eventually reject the Lord and are worthy of death.
    4. Restitution - This is the rest of mankind, who are not spirit begotten, they will learn of Jesus in the kingdom. This group also involves the ancient worthies mentioned in Hebrews 11.
  • DocBob
    DocBob
    Hmmm ... Let's see .... I went there for one reason and one reason only. To put faces to names. About 30 or my old AOL chatroom buddies weere there, including DocBob, whom I've met on afew occassions and eeven attended a few Bible Student conventions.

    Yup, I remember that. I even have a picture of us all together :)

    We were there for about half a day. And allwe so were people whiningabout their life in the Watchtower Society. Here you have people saying the Society is one big money making scheme and there were bookstables everywhere by the likes of David Reed and Duane Maganani and others sellling their books. The biggest insult was to have an athiest lead the praise and worship service, and everyone including the sponsors seemed pleased with that! It wasa mockery!

    I forget who was speaking while you were there, but I think that you do a disservice to the conference judging a three day event by when you saw in just a couple of hours. The people who have lead the praise and worship at WNFJ for many years now are far from being atheists. Mike and RuthAnn Harvey are former Mormons and Christians

  • RR
    RR
    I forget who was speaking while you were there, but I think that you do a disservice to the conference judging a three day event by when you saw in just a couple of hours. The people who have lead the praise and worship at WNFJ for many years now are far from being atheists. Mike and RuthAnn Harvey are former Mormons and Christians

    I sat in for one talk and walked out in the middle, it was David Reed's, he apparently doesn't even know basic Watchtower history. I spoke to Joan Cetnar herself and she confirmed the guy leading the praise worship was an athiest!

    As to the Harvey's are they former Mormons ANd former Christians, or former mormon and NOW Christians?

    Doc, no offense, but I've been to a few of these events, sponsored by different groups, they all smack of whining. Sory guy, but I can't see myself going to these events year after years mulling over the same old tired story, when I could put all of that behind me and get a life! I know, you guys don't like that term, but that's exactly what it is. Just like this forum, get a life!

    RR

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit