Please, please, please.

by realcourchesne 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  realcourchesne

  Hi everyone,

  Thanks for answering my question on who is the judge?

  On Jun 29, 2001 8:10:02 PM someone quoting 1 Cor 8:6, said:
  There is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

  Close, the actual quote from NWT, is: 6,) “there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we in him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are”

  I believe this is a very interesting quote. Do you believe the exact words of Paul in this particular verse when he said that there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we in him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are?

  Is every one here believes Paul’s exact words when he said that; to us or as far as we are concerned there is not two but one God the Father and not two but one Lord Jesus Christ? Or any one on thia forum does not believe “some” of the exact words of Paul in this particular verse?

  Again at this time I would appreciate a plain and clear answer to my question concerning this specific verse.
• 

  pomegranate

  >>the actual quote from NWT<<

  The actual quote is in Greek not English.

  Regarding the Father "ek":

  NT:1537
  ek (ek) or ex (ex); a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote)

  Regarding the Son "dia":

  NT:1223
  dia (dee-ah'); a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through.

  What is the difference between "God" and "Lord?" The answer is the God the Father = from (out), the "Lord" God the Son/Word(John 1:1:)= through (in/out)...

  The Lord Jesus can condescend. The Father will NEVER condescend.

  Without the Lord Jesus the Father would have had nothing to create through. Without woman the man would have nothing to procreate through. As in heaven so on earth. In the image and likeness of God.

  The Father worships and gives glory to the Son, the Son worships and gives glory to the Father.

  Husbands, love your wives as your own body.

  The Bible does not teach monotheism. The Bible teaches duotheism.
• 

  realcourchesne

  Thank you very much, you are absolutely right, the actual quote is in Greek not English.

  I have here “THE INTERLINEAR BIBLE, HEBREW, GREEK, ENGLISH”. And “THE INTERLINEAR GREEK-ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT”, and both of them express the matter in the same way the NWT and the KJ do. They both says that to us or as far as we are concerned there is not two but one God the Father and not two but one Lord Jesus Christ.

  So, please let me ask my unanswered question again: Is every one here believes Paul’s exact words when he said that; to us or as far as we are concerned there is not two but one God the Father and not two but one Lord Jesus Christ? Or any one on this forum does not believe “some” of the exact words of Paul in this particular verse?

  “There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we in him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are” 1 Cor 8:6.

  Again at this time I would appreciate a plain and clear answer to my question concerning this specific verse.

  (Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) 1 Corinthians 8:6 all <235> {BUT} hmin <2254> {TO US [THERE IS]} eiV <1520> {ONE} qeoV <2316> {GOD} o <3588> {THE} pathr <3962> {FATHER,} ex <1537> {OF} ou <3739> {WHOM [ARE]} ta <3588> panta <3956> {ALL THINGS,} kai <2532> {AND} hmeiV <2249> {WE} eiV <1519> {FOR} auton <846> {HIM;} kai <2532> {AND} eiV <1520> {ONE} kurioV <2962> {LORD} ihsouV <2424> {JESUS} cristoV <5547> {CHRIST,} di <1223> {BY} ou <3739> {WHOM [ARE]} ta <3588> panta <3956> {ALL THINGS,} kai <2532> {AND} hmeiV <2249> {WE} di <1223> {BY} autou <846> {HIM.}

  (Greek NT - (wh) w/ Grammar tags) 1 Corinthians 8:6 ÎallÐ <235> {CONJ} all <235> {CONJ} hmin <2254> {P-1DP} eiV <1520> {N-NSM} qeoV <2316> {N-NSM} o <3588> {T-NSM} pathr <3962> {N-NSM} ex <1537> {PREP} ou <3739> {R-GSM} ta <3588> {T-NPN} panta <3956> {A-NPN} kai <2532> {CONJ} hmeiV <2249> {P-1NP} eiV <1519> {PREP} auton <846> {P-ASM} kai <2532> {CONJ} eiV <1520> {N-NSM} kurioV <2962> {N-NSM} ihsouV <2424> {N-NSM} cristoV <5547> {N-NSM} di <1223> {PREP} ou <3739> {R-GSM} ta <3588> {T-NPN} panta <3956> {A-NPN} kai <2532> {CONJ} hmeiV <2249> {P-1NP} di <1223> {PREP} autou <846> {P-GSM}

  (Greek NT - (tr) w/ Grammar tags) 1 Corinthians 8:6 all <235> {CONJ} hmin <2254> {P-1DP} eiV <1520> {N-NSM} qeoV <2316> {N-NSM} o <3588> {T-NSM} pathr <3962> {N-NSM} ex <1537> {PREP} ou <3739> {R-GSM} ta <3588> {T-NPN} panta <3956> {A-NPN} kai <2532> {CONJ} hmeiV <2249> {P-1NP} eiV <1519> {PREP} auton <846> {P-ASM} kai <2532> {CONJ} eiV <1520> {N-NSM} kurioV <2962> {N-NSM} ihsouV <2424> {N-NSM} cristoV <5547> {N-NSM} di <1223> {PREP} ou <3739> {R-GSM} ta <3588> {T-NPN} panta <3956> {A-NPN} kai <2532> {CONJ} hmeiV <2249> {P-1NP} di <1223> {PREP} autou <846> {P-GSM}

  Sincerely, Real
• 

  pomegranate

  I believe Lord and God mean the same thing.

  Do you believe this, the exact words of the Apostle John?

  John 1:1-2
  1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

  So to me, Jesus is BOTH Lord and God, because that IS what the Bible teaches.

  Duotheism is plain in the Hebrew language too.

  YHWH Elohim.

  Did you know that the Hebrew word Elohim (usually translated as Almighty) is a dual noun? Hebrew dual nouns are used for things that comes in pairs. Here are some links for you to examine to show that this is true.

  http://hebrew.about.com/homework/hebrew/library/weekly/aa060500c.htm?rnk=r1&terms=hebrew+dual+nouns

  Also, on the following link, read the 5th paragraph last sentence. It is written by a doctor of Jewish language studies The suffix Yod Mem is the dual suffix for things that come in pairs. God is two as the Hebrew language plainly teaches:

  http://hebrew.about.com/homework/hebrew/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jhom.com%2Ftopics%2Fstones%2Fhebrew.html

  The tabernacle and the temple had two compartments. For good reason. YHWH Elohim...when accurately rendered:

  I Am(YHWH) Mighty(Eloh) Two(im). Father and Son. They are the Holy Spirit.
• 

  realcourchesne

  Hi everyone,

  “So to me, Jesus is BOTH Lord and God, because that IS what the Bible teaches.”

  Yes I also believe that Jesus is God and Lord but I do not believe that the word Lord and God mean the same thing. And I will with pleasure, talk about this subject later. But at this time I would appreciate your answer on this specific teaching of Paul:

  Is every one here believes Paul’s exact words when he said that; to us or as far as we are concerned there is not two but one God the Father and not two but one Lord Jesus Christ? Or any one on this forum does not believe “some” of the exact words of Paul in this particular verse?

  “There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we in him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are” 1 Cor 8:6.

  Again at this time I would appreciate a plain and clear answer (as close as possible to a YES or a NO) to my question concerning this specific verse.

  Sincerely, Real
• 

  pomegranate

  Well, you have my answer. Anyone else?
• 

  realcourchesne

  Hi everyone,
  
  Thank your answer,

  Only to make sure that I understand your answer!

  Are you telling me that your answer is the equivalent of: Yes I believe that; to us or as far as we are concerned there is not two but one God the Father and not two but one Lord (God) Jesus Christ?
  
  Sincerely, Real
• 

  pomegranate

  >>one God the Father and not two but one Lord (God) Jesus Christ?<<

  This would be true to my understanding at the present time.

  With the way it is written above, I want to clarify my previous statement to make it more accurate for you.

  One God the Father, Head over the One Lord God Jesus. One Lord God Jesus, is in submission to One God the Father.

  Though God Himself, the Lord Jesus is in subjection to God the Father.

  So..."Lord" would denote subjection to God the Father, and NOT be the same as you commented earlier.

  Are you happy now? I don't think I can explain myself any clearer.

  “There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we in him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are” 1 Cor 8:6.

  Yes.
• 

  realcourchesne

  Thanks anyway,

  I do not dispute the fact that the Lord God Jesus was and still in subjection to God the Father. The NWT tells us that Jesus never did anything that was not commended by the Father.

  I have been trying to get a straight answer from every one of you on this forum but no one could say with a clear yes or a clear no if they believe every words of the quotes I quoted, as they where written in the NWT.

  Do not feel bad about that because you are not the only one that can’t do it. Millions and millions of JWs have the same problem and the reason is very simple.

  The NWT tells us that THE father in heaven gives ALL authority to His Son Jesus Christ to create our world, the heaven included. And the NWT tells us that Jesus did. The Father himself, speaking to Christ said: "YOU at the beginning, O Lord, laid the foundation of the earth itself, and the heavens are the works of YOUR hands" Hebrews 1:10 N.W. "ALL things came into existence THROUGH him, and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence" John 1:3, N.W.

  The NWT tells us that THE father in heaven gives ALL authority to His Son Jesus Christ to be the ONLY Judge. :"For the FATHER judges NO ONE AT ALL, but he has committed ALL judging to the Son," John 5:22, N.W.

  The NWT tells us that by giving His own life for us Jesus Christ became the only Savior of our world. "Furthermore, there is no salvation in ANYONE ELSE, for THERE IS NOT ANOTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN that has been given among men by which we must get saved." Acts 4:12, N.W.

  The New World Translation tells us that the Lord of the Old Testament that they call Jehovah was Jesus the Christ. Otherwise the Lord that spoke to Isaiah would have been lying when saying: "For I am Jehovah your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior... " Isaiah 43:3. N.W.
  · "I am Jehovah; and there is no Savior besides me." Isaiah 43:11. N.W.

  BUT, The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society teaches that the Lord of the Old Testament is the Father.

  JWs are in constant contradictions with the teachings of the NWT. Although the NWT tells us that Jesus is the ONLY Creator, the ONLY Savior, the ONLY Judge and THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL, they must prove The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society’s theory.

  All this controversy will instantly vanish the day they will accept that Jesus and not the Father is the Lord of the Old Testament that the NWT calls Jehovah.

  Paul’s said: To us or as far as we are concerned there is not two but one God the Father and not two but one Lord Jesus Christ?
  “There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we in him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are” 1 Cor 8:6.

  I thank you very much for your time. I believe that The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society will sooner or later relief you from all that controversy by teaching the words of the NWT or of any other Bible as they are written.

  I believe that at a time less damaging to their popularity, the Watch Tower and Tract Society will initiate a complete fundamental reform of their teachings concerning who is the Lord of the Old Testament that they call Jehovah.

  Fore more flagrant controversies you may visit my web site at: http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/real/page02.htm

  Sincerely yours,
  Real Courchesne
• 

  pomegranate

  I agree.

  The YHWH of the OT is Jesus without a doubt.

  The Father, from my perspective, assisted the Son in two things, forming Adam in the beginning, and raising Christ from the dead. Everything else was Christ...when in flesh, He was a man with the Father's power.

  From Genesis to Revelation, as the Bible says:

  John 3:35
  35 The Father loves the Son and <u>has placed everything in his hands</u>.

  The Father waits to tell the Son when to execute judgement. That is the Father's only decision He has kept for Himself, the day and the hour.

  >>I believe that at a time less damaging to their popularity, the Watch Tower and Tract Society will initiate a complete fundamental reform of their teachings concerning who is the Lord of the Old Testament that they call Jehovah.<<

  I don't think that can happen. They have built their house on Christ as a creation rather than as God. Their foundation is inferior. It has been built on the sand, and they have the wrong cornerstone. If the foundation is bad, the whole house will be condemned.