by JH 44 Replies latest jw friends
No, I like to think I became an atheist through the application of pure reason.
Having said that, information I acquired while researching the history and teachings of the WTS probably contributed to me realising that the Judeo-Christian god could not possibly exist. I never believed in any other gods or goddesses, and have seen no reason to start.
No, I like to think I became an atheist through the application of pure reason.
Having said that, information I acquired while researching the history and teachings of the WTS probably contributed to me realising that the Judeo-Christian god could not possibly exist
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bingo- typically when one leaves wt it is due to questioning things, and it only leads one to keep questioning things the fear of DON'T ASK THAT QUESTION IS GONE
as my grandma would say:
"Baby, don't question the "LARD", not Lord the "LARD"
and we see the same from almost all believers - the basic reaction is "How dare you question god , he could strike you down right now if he wanted to"
well after awhile that boogie man fear no longer works- and then you begin to ask the unforbidden questions
i recall a poster put this up just to make a point about the belief in god and the challenge a beleiver has in explaining things
typically a believer will whip out the bible and quote a ton of text and as you continue to chip away at the reasoning and logic behind it like the GOD SANCTIONS test for FEMALE ADULTRY AND NO MALE TESTED- after awhile the person will say:
"WELL YOU JUST GOTTA BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
and at that point its like:
"O --so you really can't support your postion beyond "Just believing , so why didnt you say that in the beginning instead of all --the I will show you from the bible stuff--
here is just food for thought:
The Tale of the Five Officers (2000)
Mark I. Vuletic
When Ms. K. was slowly raped and murdered by a common thug over the course of 1 hour and 55 minutes, in plain sight of five fully-armed off-duty police officers who ignored her terrified cries for help and instead just looked on until the act was carried to its gruesome end, I found myself facing a personal crisis. You see, the officers had all been very close friends of mine, but after hearing about their inaction, I found my trust in them shaken to its core. Fortunately, I was able to talk with them later on, and had my doubts laid to rest.
"I thought about intervening," said the first officer, "but it occurred to me that it was obviously better for the murderer to be able to exercise his free will than to have it restricted. I deeply regret the choices he made, but that's the price of having a world with free agents. Would you rather everyone in the world was a robot? The attacker's choices certainly weren't in my control, so I can't be held responsible for his actions."
"Well," said the second officer, "my motivation was a little bit different. I was about to pull my gun on the murderer when I thought to myself, 'But wait, wouldn't this be a perfect opportunity for some unarmed by-stander to exercise selfless heroism, should he chance to walk by? If I were to intervene all the time like I was just about to, then no one would ever be able to exercise such a virtue. In fact, everyone would probably become very spoiled and self-centered if I were to protect everyone from rape and murder.' So I backed off. It's unfortunate that no one actually showed up to heroically intervene, but that's the price of having a universe where people can display virtue and maturity. Would you rather the world were nothing but love, peace, and roses?"
"Personally, I didn't even consider stepping in," said the third officer. "I probably would have if I didn't have so much experience of life as a whole, since Ms. K's rape and murder seems pretty horrible when taken in isolation. But when you put it into context with the rest of life, it actually adds to the overall beauty of the big picture. Ms. K.'s screams were like the discordant notes that make fine musical pieces better than they would have been if all the notes were flawless. In fact, I could scarcely keep from waving my hands around, imagining I myself was conducting the delicious nuances of the orchestra."
"Look, there's really no point in my trying to explain the details to you," said the fourth officer, who we had nicknamed 'Brainiac' because he had an encyclopedic knowledge of literally everything and an IQ way off the charts. "There's an excellent reason for why I did not intervene, but it's just way too complicated for you to understand, so I'm not going to bother trying. Just so there's no misunderstanding, though, let me point out that no one could care about Ms. K. more than I did, and that I am, in fact, a very good person."
"I'll let you in on a secret," said the fifth officer. "Moments after Ms. K. flatlined, I had her resuscitated, and flown to a tropical resort where she is now experiencing extraordinary bliss, and her ordeal is just a distant memory. I'm sure you would agree that that's more than adequate compensation, and so the fact that I just stood there watching instead of helping her has no bearing at all on my goodness."
By now, it had become clear to me that there was no difficulty reconciling my friends' goodness with their behavior that one day, and that anyone who disagreed must be doing so for love of evil over good. After all, anyone who has experienced the officers' friendship in the way I have knows that they are good. Their goodness is even manifest in my life--I was in a shambles before I met them, but now everyone remarks on what a changed person I am, so much kinder and happier, and possessed of the inner calm that everyone so desperately seeks. I am ashamed that I ever doubted their entitlement to my loyalty and my love.
As I was getting ready to leave, the first officer spoke up again. "By the way, I also think you should know that when we stood there watching Ms. K. get raped and stabbed over and over, we were suffering along with her, and we experienced exactly the same pain she did, or perhaps even more." And everyone in the room, myself included, nodded his head in agreement.
I refuse to label myself, Atheist, Agnostic, etc. b/c there is no label to describe what I believe or don't believe. I may fit other people's label as Agnostic, but I won't limit who I am to a label or a belief.
Well once I left the BORG I questioned everything. So the same aversion I have towards the BORG for brain washing me, and deceiving me I have towards just about everything else in life, or everything else that molded my thinking. I'm thankful to the BORG for helping me open my eyes to the World, and seeing things for what they are instead of what people wish them to be.
Peace - LL :)
It totally made me an atheist, at 14 or so. And I stayed that way a long time. Then I became a sort of skeptical agnostic believer. I hang around right on the other side of edge. I'm a classic case of what the rationalists always say about believers: I believe because I want to and it makes me happier. Intellectually bankrupt, maybe, but I'd rather be happy than right.
Did the WTS make an atheist out of you?
Damn near.
Nope. Although I have a very different concept of divinity than that of an old man with a white beard up there in the sky somewhere.
I have a need to be spiritual. I have all of my life. I don't care if there is a grain of truth to whether or not divinity exists, or if I am just imagining it, and making use of archetypal, mythological images to bring meaning to my life. It makes me whole and happy, and that's all I care. I will not permit my experiences with the WTS to separate me from something I have valued all of my life.
Reality and reason are a wonderful thing, but not if they drain all of the joy out of your existence, and make you so pessimistic you have no vision of a better future. Play and imagination are wonderful things, too. Some of our greatest minds were playful, and their imaginations spanned far beyond what "normal" society considered reasonable. It's almost always been the dreamers, the visionaries, who ignite the fire of new ideas, ideas that start out as great controversies and heresies,then are refined by science and reason.
The words of Bozo the clown or Barney can be just as meaning-full to a child as the theories of Einstein are to an adult.It all depends on the subjective experience of each individual.
If anything spiritual catches my curiosity, it?s Eastern philosophy for now.
But upon leaving the WTS, the feelings I now have for God are the same that I have for Santa Claus.
Both seem like they could be pretty cool dudes, but then there?s that whole thing about enslaved elves making gifts angels being readied to kill mankind, breaking into people?s homes at night and stealing their cookies killing the firstborn, and spying on you to see when you are naughty and nice.
In retrospect, they both seem like hypocrites to me. I?m glad I?m done with imaginary friends.
The real question for me is: Did the WTS make an atheist realist out of you?
Yes.
God has no more to do with the Borganization than any other man concieved religion.....psalm 118:8 makes it clear.......man continues to use god and religion to perpetuate hunger for power, ego and control with material gain, results that have nothing to do with what Jesus taught......by the fruit ye shall know the tree.
rocky220 [from the out and free class]
Funny, but some people here that turned "Atheist" just went from one dogma to another...only without belief.
I still keep the faith. Franz said it best: No one Christian religion is the "only" path, Christianity itself is the true faith....
I think the thing that has become most important to me is how you treat me and how do you treat people important to me. The traditional Christian people treat me very well. The Catholic people have treated me best by far, but I know more Catholic people and have more contact with them.
Another rather large group of really kind people has been the veterans. They have treated me and my family very well. Many of my friends are veterans.
As a group the Witness people have treated me and my family the worst. I am ashamed to ever have been associated with them.
