Converting JWs to Sanity

by Mr. Jones 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  bisous

  also, one of my favorite "wake up" stories comes from Dave *Seven006* here's a quote:

  My friend Kurt who stopped me in mid sentence when I roboticly and drop the dime in the slot automatically began inessential witnessing to him. He looked me right in the eyes and said, Dave, you are one of the smartest guys I know, do you really think the whole planet is in a world of shit because a talking snake told a naked lady to eat a piece of fruit?

  That was 20 years ago and I have never accepted as fact, or possible historical evidence, such absurd myth and manipulative childish bullshit since. Science, logic, archeology, and intelligent reasoning based on facts does not bias itself by the insecure need to think that some big sky daddy tucks us in every night and keeps a couple of glowing white winged good guy boggy men watch over us.
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  DanTheMan

  There's plenty of JW's that even if I was given a chance to reason with them to show them how screwy it all is, I don't know if I'd take it. They wouldn't be able to hack non-institutional life, and are fairly happy where they are. But those are the dubs that you'd never de-convert anyway.

  In my case, except for maybe the first year or so that I was involved I never completely bought into WT worldview of Jehovah vs. Satan and everybody in the world being on one side or the other whether they knew it or not. Plus my family aren't JW's, so I had a pretty soft landing. For the true believer with lots of JW family, even if you think you have an opening with them, I'd be very careful. For all of the WT's talk about the Reasonableness? of their belief system, for JW's their adherence to the faith is something that is very tied to their survival instincts. They are certain that they are on the winning side of the greatest battle that will ever be, and that to leave is to join the opposing team that is destined to lose in the end, and being on the losing side means suffering the ultimate humiliation of being post-Armageddon bird feed. Silly as it all sounds, it is crushing to find out that it's all a bunch of hooey.

  When I was a dub I was never asked by anybody "Do you really believe that every person outside of the JW organization is a follower of Satan, doomed to be killed by God at Armageddon?" I dreaded somebody asking me such a question though, as I knew that my answer would have to be no, and I wasn't ready for that.
• 

  bisous

  I dunno, Shamus and XQs....do you think those of us here are just intellectually superior to the average JW?

  I think any of them can have their eyes opened, and more and more are. Just my opinion, everyone's entitled to it.
• 

  Triple A

  Mr. Jones, welcome to JWD.

  Through clear reasoning with a Jehovah's Witness, has anyone found it possible to show a JW that they are completly brainwashed members of a cult? What are the best strategy's or methods of converting a JW back into a clear thinking individual? Any anecdote or insight is welcome.

  No, I have not. But I do not know what state the JW that is knocking at my door is in and it maybe the time that they are just looking for someone that has the other side of the story. I do not believe that anyone one thing will work, except showing love, knowing their traps and snears (hope Rutherford does not mind me borrowing that) and persistance.

  I also look at it this way. As long as they are at my door they are not talking to someone that is unaware of the wolf in sheep's clothing standing at theirs.

  I have been able to help others who are being approach and become confused. The purple KIT is a powerful tool in showing the twist of the scriptures.

  Mr. Jones you will find a lot of loving and caring people on this board with good advise.
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  Mysterious

  Something has to happen to them to make them have doubts or to question. And it has to happen faster than the watchtower conditioning and sympathizers can react. Often something like a death will not work. Why? They have known the answer to death since they were little children. However being depressed and told it is a lack of faith and study may just do the trick. Ultimately it is very hard to "convert a JW to sanity" if they do not already have doubts. Once they have doubts it's only a matter of time to exploit the cracks.
• 

  Farkel

  : Through clear reasoning with a Jehovah's Witness, has anyone found it possible to show a JW that they are completly brainwashed members of a cult?
  
  
  Only when they are ready to hear the truth about their religion. If they aren't you're pretty much wasting your time.
  
  
  : What are the best strategy's or methods of converting a JW back into a clear thinking individual?
  
  
  You have to break them out of their brainlock before you can make any progress. While JWs are all different, there are some general things they have in common, and I will outline some of them.
  
  
  JWs are used to "winning" Bible arguments. Although generally they only know about a dozen or so scriptures, the people they meet at the door are mostly clueless about the Bible. That being the case, JWs are rather smug in their so-called Bible knowledge and expect to "win" any discussion. They get extremely uncomfortable with people who know more about the Bible than they do. They become VERY SUSPICIOUS when they meet someone who knows more about their religion and its history than they do. Indeed, they have a right to be suspicious. Most people don't give a shit about their stupid religion.
  
  
  These are the most common techniques they use when they get backed into a corner, and one has to be on own's toes to spot these techniques:
  
  
  1) As soon as they discover you know a lot about their religion, they will demand to know if you were ever a JW. If you were once a JW, everything you say from then on will go in one ear and out the other. Their brains will completely shut down.
  
  
  2) They will try to change the subject, or alternatively, alter the subject just enough from its topic so they can defend the new topic they've set up. This is called a strawman. You have to force then back to the original argument, because they will keep trying to avoid it.
  
  
  3) They will demand to know what you believe. This is a trap. Don't fall for it. It is not relevant what you believe. They are the ones trying to convert you. Once you tell them what you believe, they will turn around and try to divert matters by attacking your beliefs. When they ask me this question, I always tell them what I believe isn't relevant. I'm not trying to convert them to anything.
  
  
  4) They will make up an answer or make a speculation that they know their religion doesn't even teach. JWs speculate all the time, so this comes natural for them. I once cornered two JWs by asking them if they believed everything in the Eden story actually happened as written. They said "yes." I then asked them who invented the first weapon of war. They said "man" did. I said, not according to the Eden story. It was GOD who put up a twirling sword to guard the entrance into the garden of Eden when he expelled Adam and Eve. Adam didn't know anything about even the concept of war, did he? But God must have known because he put up a SWORD to guard the entrance. At this point, it was hilarious to watch them stumble around, speculating that Adam COULD have known what a sword was (because God told him!), or that part of the story wasn't literal after all. So be on the alert. JWs make up a lot of shit when they are cornered.
  
  
  5) They will question your motives. (As if your motives will somehow turn the same valid argument into an invalid argument!)
  
  
  6) They will get mad and raise their voices. Once they reach this point you will get no further with them. Remember, you are attacking their cherished fantasies and they cannot successfully defend them.
  
  
  7) They will state that they will research the matter and visit you again.
  
  
  Don't count on it.
  
  
  Farkel
• 

  SpannerintheWorks

  Farkel, that's nothing short of poetic.

  Spanner
• 

  Bubbamar

  Welcome to JWD!!

  You could read Steven Hassan's book Releasing the Bonds. I think he offers some good insights but I couldn't tell you if it really works....my mom's still in the cult. But give me time - hehehe -- I only read the book about a month ago.