Feral elders

by SixofNine 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    I hate to see people suggesting lawsuits over this kind of thing. They seldom work, if ever. I know two people who wrote very specific letters, assisted by attorneys, stating this and that would happen if they were disfellowshipped or disassociated.

    One was disfellowshipped and the other disassociated. The latter's body of elders said her letter made it very clear she no longer considered herself a JW, which it didn't state. They interpreted it that way. You have to be dead serious about doing it and proceed and they have to believe you will.

    The previous two women were unlikely to do a thing, and the elders probably knew it.

    Anyway, I think threatening lawsuits is a bad way to approach it.

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Mulan, imvho, I agree.

    I threatened a lawsuit, and didn't get any mileage out of it whatsoever.

    otoh, I know of one case where a lawsuit was threatened, and the elders backed off. Since I happen to know the chairman/elder in question, I can understand why the threat succeeded: he was a mousey (read no-balls) fellow, and was dealing with a particularly aggressive exJW.

    The situations were different, and I really can't say with any professional experience that such a legal challenge is advisable, or inadvisable.

    Mostly, what I'm thinking about is: What's best for the peace of mind of someone that gets stuck in this situation?

    We all pays our dime, and takes our chances.

    Respectfully,

    Craig

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    God Six, I don't know what to say other than I'm SO sorry. I hate how they are tricky like little snakes to "clean house" as such. It's so obvious that they've just had a talk. Several others on this board lately say they've received calls or visit just in the last month. Now you. And today before I called you, my mom called. I missed the call and it rolled into voicemail, so I didn't talk to her. I may just email her the answer to her question. No point in getting into a conversation and risking getting tied up into any religious conversations with her. *sigh*

    Let me know if I can do anything at all. I can show up in a power suit and try to play your attorney. Ask Neil...I can be a pretty hard-nosed b**** sometimes.

    Love you guy.

    Andi

    PS: I got a cool new camera this weekend. Maybe we could just stake out some of those elders and photoshop some "compromising" pictures ifyaknowwhatImean.

  • willyloman
    willyloman

    Six: It's difficult to advise you unless I know what you are accused of. Do you even know? Depending on what the "crime" is, and I don't expect you to tell me since we don't know each other, some of the advice you've received here is sound. Specifically, I agree with:

    1. Don't do their job for them by DA'ing; make 'em do the deed because that forces them to come up with evidence. As another poster said earlier, you never know in these things when some elder will have an attack of conscience and surprise you.

    2. Do the stall. You have a right to know what the charges are, and to bring witnesses (but not, as someone suggested above, the right to bring folks for moral support, sorry). The alleged wrongdoing would determine whether there could be witnesses. You have a right to prepare your defense; make 'em give you sufficient time (two weeks or even three would be reasonable, especially if you are on deadline for some big work project). At the meeting itself, make no admission of guilt. If possible, deny everything. If it appears they are going to make a decision that night, offer to produce a witness who can verify your version of events. Doesn't matter whether you can or not, your goal is to get a postponement of the hearing. That should buy you at least another week. If you are DF'd at that point, and you still need more time, tell them at the hearing that you intend to appeal. Wait six days, per the suggestion outlined by someone else above, and deliver your appeal letter. They will attempt to get that meeting scheduled very quickly but between contacting the CO and you finding time in your busy schedule, you could probably buy another week or two.

    Of course, all this assumes you just want to put them off until after the wedding. I'm afraid there is no magic bullet for avoiding DF'ing, although some interesting suggestions have been made on this thread. I, too, am not a big fan of threatening a lawsuit, although I know that some bodies of elders would shudder at that; but in the end, they'll talk to the CO and "Mother" and they'll be coaxed into moving forward.

    The only reason they should be in a big hurry is if you are considered a "clear and present danger" to the congo. Of course, the real reason they might be rushing this is because they know about the wedding coming up and someone has complained to them that you will be there.

    Good luck.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Thanks for all the support, I'm not sure what direction to take with yet.

    Perhaps I should introduce them to the saturday morning group I hang out with while they are herding cargroups?:

    they really do need to know what the fear of god really feels like, just once in their lives, lol.

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    The stars at night are big and bright! Deep in the heart of Texas!

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    Hmmm...I think you've probably made up your mind already.

    If you go on Wednesday night you could interupt them at crucial moments and say..shhhh..quiet I'm receiving instruction right now from the holy spear-it...Or keep swatting in the air behind you..whispering not now.

    Maybe they found out your as trite and gay as a flower in may..or something to that effect.

    Seems so strange that after 4 years they turn up like this...I don't think they'll share with you who made accusations or if there was really someone or not.

    Might sound strange..but if your family already knows your situation you might think about talking to them just to let them know what is going on...that there are accusations against you but because they are not true and thus can't be defended you will not go to a judicial committee meeting...if the up-coming wedding is a concern this may tell you how this action will affect it..if at all.

    Sorry for this sixer...goodthing you've got other positives in your life right now.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    So they haven't told you the nature of the allegations?
    How are you supposed to supply your own witnesses?

    Chances are that they are setting up an early visit to establish wrongdoing. If you say little, there's little they can screw you on. You don't have to answer any of their questions. Chances are that they want to screw you, anyway, so one way or another they will do it. If you're unsuccessful in delaying it and they sit on Wednesday without your presence, they will likely announce it on Thursday night and later inform you of the fact. That's what they did with my sister.

    If you eventually attend and they go for the DF they have to give you a week to appeal (and inform you of that right). If they dont you could ask them if there's an appeal process, at which point they'd have to inform you of it, hence buying you a week to appeal (I'd make them wait, while you "mull over the idea"). On appeal, they then have to get another committee together, which you may, or may not turn up for, having gone through the same delaying tactics.

    All of this takes time, and might at least get you to the wedding, before they do the 50yd punt with your ass.

    Meanwhile, the DA isn't likely to buy you anything, unless your family have a VERY lenient view of what DA'ing means. One that is likely as volatile as the next Service Meeting item.

    Whatever happens, are you gonna take some pics?

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    Just tell them youll meet after the wedding. As far as family it is not a requiment they shun you just talk to them before thand that you spect someone wants to DF you. Most JW problems are made worse by acting like you did something wrong. IF you are open and quite self confident they really can't do anything to you.

  • scotsman
    scotsman

    After 4 years, it is strange that they want to act now. Two elders came after me a year after I'd left and when I threatened to speak to a lawyer they backed off. My threat was empty but it worked. I agree with the others that it would be strange for your family to look more kindly upon your disassociation than disfellowshipping. I suggest you stall them, and in the final event, don't meet them.

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