by Farkel 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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EVERY READER. This is an excellent expose of Watchtower leadership THINKING. Does Covington's reasoning make sense to you? Are you willing to die for a teaching that may be admittedly wrong, such as the teaching on blood?
Jst2laws
Mulan and Niceguy,
It is nice to be back. I have so much catching up to do. SORRY FARKEL.
Steve,
: If it means anything to you, this post brought me out of a month of silence.
Your lack of participation was much missed.
With regard to specific references, my citation was found on pages 347 to 348 of the Walsh trial transcript. The entire transcript is available for a relatively modest fee. Try Randy Watters first. If he cannot provide it, I'm sure he can tell you where to find it these days.
Little Toe might be able to help you out, if you want to go straight to the Courts in Scotland to get a copy!
Farkel
I dont know about you guys but I think it's heartening to see the JWs on the wrong side of that kind of questioning.
Farkel-
Damn! I wish I had seen this years ago, as Gopher said, I rememeber the booklet discussing all the court victories of Covington, but this is really the BOTTOM LINE in very plain language. Our way or the highway. Thanks.
Just to add a little backround,
The Douglas Walsh CaseIn 1954, the principal officers of the Watchtower Society traveled to the British Isles to take part in an appeal to obtain recognition for their Jehovah?s Witness movement to be accepted as a genuine religious denomination and presiding elders of Witness congregations as genuine so-called ministers. The Society gained acceptance as a religion but lost the second part of the appeal. However, during the trial Hayden Covington (at that time the chief legal representative of the Society) admitted that (a) the Watchtower was guilty of publishing false prophecy, and (b) the Jehovah?s Witness leaders maintained their "famous" world-wide state of unity by forcing all loyal Witnesses to accept false prophecy.( from the WT observer)
Again, religion gets away with murder.
Gumby
Some time ago, I wrote to Duane Magnani of http://www.witnessinc.com/ to ask about a transcript of the Douglas Walsh trial. Duane told me it was available from
Jehovah's Witnesses Books
P.O. Box 597
Clayton, CA 94517
This is 762 pages and was priced at $95.00 plus and $5.75 or $8.75 priority mail.
You may want to confirm the price and availability as this quote is not recent.
More recently - October 2003 - I managed to get the information necessary to obtain the trial transcripts directly from the court. I received the following email in reply to my query:
Dear XXXXXXXXXXXX,
Douglas Walsh v The Right Honourable James Latham Clyde
Thank you for your e-mail of 7th October 2003 concerning the Court of Session case Douglas Walsh v the Right Honourable James Latham Clyde, MP, PC as Minister of Labour and National Service (ref: CS258/1958/2738).
In this case Mr. Walsh wished the court to find the Jehovah's Witnesses to be a religious denomination for the purposes of the National Services Act, 1948, and that he be found to be a regular minister of that denomination thereby exempting him from National Service. Lord Strachan found that the Jehovah's Witnesses were a religious denomination but did not find the pursuer a regular minister. Lords Patrick and Mackintosh and the Lord Justice Clerk concurred with his findings.
The complete case papers number 1186 pages and include procedural papers (inventory, summons, interlocutors, motion sheet, minutes, defences, closed record, etc) (106 pages), the Opinions of Lords Strachan, Mackintosh, Patrick and the Lord Justice Clerk (109 pages), the Pursuer's Proof (815
pages) and the Closing Speeches by Senior Counsel, the Dean of Faculty and Mr. Leslie (156 pages). It is the Pursuer's Proof, in which is detailed the operations and beliefs of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and the Jehovah's Witnesses, that has been of particular interest to previous
enquirers. In the course of the Pursuer's Proof evidence was given by Hayden Covington, legal adviser to the Jehovah's Witnesses, Frederick Franz, Vice President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and Grant Suiter, Secretary and treasurer of the Pennsylvania Corporation and New York
Incorporation of Jehovah's Witnesses.We can supply you with xerox or microfilm copies of the whole or any part of these papers. A special package microfilm of the Pursuer's Proof is available at a less expensive rate as a negative copy is already available. You will find a list of current prices appended.
The cost includes airmail postage, packing, and a handling charge. If you decide to proceed with an order, please send a crossed cheque, drawn on a British account, or international money order, in sterling, made out in favour of the 'National Archives of Scotland'. Payment must be made in
advance.We are also able to accept payment by the following credit cards and debit cards: Visa, MasterCard, Switch and Solo. In order to make a payment by credit/debit card you must provide us with: 1) the card number; 2) the card expiry date; 3) the issue number if Switch; 4) the cardholder's name and
initials as shown on the card; and 5) the cardholder's address, not the delivery address. Please note that all of these details are essential, and can be e-mailed to [email protected]
However, because we do not have an encryption programme to protect incoming e-mail, and details sent via e-mail are not secure you may prefer to send any credit card details by post. Alternatively, you may wish to telephone Linda Stuart with your payment details on 00 44 131 535 1383.We shall proceed with your order on receipt of payment. This estimate is valid for two months only, from the date of this e-mail. We regret that we do not accept payment in currencies other than sterling. Please note that we will require a postal address to send your order to on completion.
If you do decide to proceed with this order, please also note that it will take at least 3 to 4 weeks to process once we have received payment from you as the order will be sent to the National Archives of Scotland's Reprographic Branch.
CS258/1958/2738 Walsh v Minister of Labour and National Service
Estimated Price List: October 2003
Standard Service (Air)
1. Xerox
a. Complete copy (1186 pages) £600.00 ($995.70 US)
b. Pursuer's proof (815 pages) £415.00 ($688.69 US)
2. Microfilm
a. Complete copy or Pursuer's proof £40.00 ($66.38 US)
Please note that all charges are in sterling, and that all remittances should be made in STERLING.
I hope that this information will prove useful to you, I wish you ever success with your research.
Yours sincerely,
Tessa Spencer
West Search Room ArchivistTHE NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF SCOTLAND
West Register House
Charlotte Square
Edinburgh
EH2 4DFE-mail: [email protected]
Website: http://www.nas.gov.uk
Tel: 0131 535 1314 Direct line: 0131 535 1413
Fax: 0131 535 1411
Nathan,
Thanks, I wish they would digitize all their records. But at least it is available.
Jst2laws
Farkal asked:
Are you dubbies going to follow a fat arrogant "spiritual Purser" which destroys people for pointing out their false prophecies, false prophecies which themselves have ruined the lives and futures of hundreds of thousands of people? Are you going to follow a "spiritual Purser", with claimed, but virtually unproven authority, yet which has a 100% failure rate in its interpretation of Bible prophecy?
Yes I am. Wait I'm not sure. Let me think. I think I am. What was question again?
The tragedy of this is that some who were DF for disagreeing with "old light" were still viewed as Satan's disciples by the WTS even when the "old light" had been replaced by "new light" which the DF had been speaking of.
The WTS' 'take' on this situation is that such ones were justifiably DF since they were "running ahead of the Organisation" and so were guilty of rebellion.
How sick! They rebelled against a lie and in favor of 'God's truth' yet were still DF. That's sick!
naTHAN thanx; i was talking with this x jw from the u.k. on paltalk and he was asking about getting the whole transscript. i told him it was big bucks, and told him he would not need the whole transscript. i remembered your earlier post or anyother one like it. i told him to go or call the scotland court etc. the $95 from witnessinc. don't sound so bad after what the court asked for.. this guy on paltalk does some great research on all kinds of cults. i could never keep up with him, unless we are talking about the wt. john
