Do you struggle to find truth in anything religious these days?

by Samdownunder 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  RR

  I didn't seek to leave the JW's it just happened. I wanted to be the best JW I could be, answer the questions when asked, defend my faith when it needed defending. There were things I accepted as truth, things I didn't and other things I just modfied, in the end I found myself outside, not able to associate with them anymore.

  Let's face it, for the most part JW's are not very religious, many have head knowldge, few have heart knowledge. Do what the Society tells them and they will get into the kingdom. I found my own way into the kingdom ... his name is Jesus Christ!

  RR
• 

  LittleToe

  SP:

  Also, I don't think it's necessary for me to delve into other religious orders to realize that they are all going to be flawed and not what I need.

  Some might say that about occupations, however once they try something new they realise that they had blindsided themselves to something they really enjoy.

  RR:

  I found my own way into the kingdom ... his name is Jesus Christ!

  Whilst I might dispute the theology of that one, I concur with the sentiments
• 

  peacefulpete

  I'm going to endorse a book by Karen Armstrong that I ran across this weekend. "The Spiral Staircase: My climb out of Darkness" . Dynomite recounting of this brilliant woman's quest for meaning and direction after leaving the convent. Her experience in many ways mirrors ours, and her success is an inspiration.
• 

  itsallgoodnow

  I think it's worth noting that most folks who comment on this kind of topic have absolutely no experience of any religion outside of the JW's.

  Oh, really, LT? Have you conducted a thorough survey on this or are you just trying to make your argument sound more valid?

  I'm with dh on this one, I can respect others' beliefs, as well as others' lack of beliefs, but I don't associate them with anything real. Sometimes people need to have something to hold on to, to have answers or to imagine there's something more after death. I can understand that, but I have decided to suspend my belief with no fear of reprisals from any kind of "god", if there is one. I have really enjoyed being able to look at the world from this perspective, it feels more natural.
• 

  LittleToe

  IAGN:
  What would be the argument that I would be supporting?

  My conjecture only concerned weighting the "evidence", presented by the thread, appropriately.
  The part of my post that you quoted was the argument!
  Would you like to get into a pissing match about how many "religious" threads I read proportionate to yourself?
  

  LT, of the "doesn't give a damn about religion" class
• 

  itsallgoodnow

  What would be the argument that I would be supporting?

  It sounded to me like you were saying that some people's opinions matter less than others because they haven't tried another religion. But you couldn't really know they haven't tried another religion. And it also seemed like you were leading to the conclusion that people can't have a valid opinion on this until they have joined another faith besides jehovahs witnesses. Sorry if I misunderstood any of that.

  Would you like to get into a pissing match about how many "religious" threads I read proportionate to yourself?

  I have no desire to get into a pissing contest with you, LT. I know you can piss far longer than I can, you have better equipment than me and way more experience!
• 

  franklin J

  I am not sure if I believe in God; as he is represented by the organized religions. I have seen too many ugly things happen to too many innocent people and children to think that there is a benevolant personality smiling over us.

  I do believe in something, though; I do not know what. I want to believe. But my experiences with other religions other than the JWs since my departure have taught me that there are some very dedicated, sincere worshippers in Judism, Catholicism, and of the Muslim faith.

  Why would they be any more right or wrong than the teachings of the JWs or Christianity in general? I suppose my answer ( AND I CAN LIVE WITH THIS) is that I do not have any answers and honestly believe that no one does. I go on with my life.

  I have also learned to believe in the here and now; my own abilities to change things for the better in my own life. I have learned to take respondibility for my direction in life. We all have that freedom.
• 

  seattleniceguy

  Hello and welcome, Sam and Jew,

  No, I don't try to find "religious truth" these days. In fact, I think the phrase is an oxymoron. I like to stick to what we really know and work from there.

  We know we are alive. We know we live on a wonderful earth. We know we will die. What happens after death, we don't know. But really, what does it matter? Living your life based on what we solidly know, we can enjoy our friendships with others, we can work to be good stewards of the earth, and we can find enjoyment in simple pleasures. We will find out the rest in due time. Or not, based on what actually happens. But it certainly doesn't help to worry about it now.

  Just my two cents.

  SNG
• 

  JamesThomas

  Seattleniceguy,
  
  "Sticking with what we really know, and working from there". That certainly seems wise.
  
  But, who is this "we" that "knows and works from there"?
  
  It seems obvious that the body dies. But, am I, the body?
  
  All that can be known for certain is that there is conscious awareness. The interpretation of anything and everything else (that we normally think of as reality), is open for question.
  
  Am I a tiny fragment entombed within a biological unit, itself separate and apart from all else? It is certainly the common and unquestioned paradigm to believe this way; but that does not make it true.
  
  Perhaps there is "no out-there, out-there" (as some Quantum Physicists like to say); and "only the mind moves", as some Zen teachers say.
  
  What, doesn't move?
  Who am I, really?
  
  There is a new movie out called "What The Bleep Do We Know", that is playing at only a select few theaters. I suggest people go see it. With the apple computer and browser I am using I have no edit capabilities, so am unable to post a hyperlink. Here is the movies site address that you can copy and paste http://www.whatthebleep.com/
  It will guide you to theaters and times in your area.
  
  
  j
• 

  seattleniceguy

  JamesThomas,

  When I said to stick to what we know, I meant it in the subjective sense, not in a collective one. I meant that an individual might find it better to stick to what he knows for sure than to spend undue time worrying about what we clearly cannot know now. In my mind, most religious questions fall clearly into that realm.

  Of course, it is enjoyable and perhaps beneficial to ponder what the purpose of the universe might be, or what might happen after death, but it seems silly to base one's life on concepts for which there is no actual basis. And to allow a fear of imagined things for which there is no evidence to control your life would certainly be a terrible thing.

  Actually, I thought I was continuing your general train of thought when you said:

  When there is no religion or belief, when there is no thought or conceptualizing, when there is no judging or interpretation, there is Truth.

  I think it's good to stop and take stock and say, what really do I know at this moment? Of course, there are many things in the universe that are counter-intuitive. For example, common sense would never reveal to us that the earth revolves around the sun. Relying only on intuition, a person can easily be duped. So deduction and conceptualizing are critical tools. But there is absolutely no way we can deduce certain religious questions based on the evidence at hand, so it seems best to stick with what we know and be content not to know those answers.

  With regard to the movie you mention, I was turned off when I saw evidence in the trailers of a very pseudo-scientific approach that reminded me a lot of WT science. And several people whose opinions I trust saw the movie and verified that its treatment of science was sketchy at best. Obviously, the ties to my previous experience in the Witnesses make this a most undesirable thing for me, so I have no plans of paying money to see it. But I suppose I might give it a skeptical watch when it comes out on video.

  We might disagree a bit, but I certainly appreciate your posts. They're always thought-provoking.

  SNG