A Question For JW's Concerning Sticking To Their Own Kind...?

by Mr Parody 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Mr Parody

  Hi,

  I'm not a Witness myself, I'm not even religious, but I know this younger woman who is. I thought we hit it off pretty well. I became attracted to her by her beauty, then infatuated by her kindness, and sweet personality...Then I found out she was a JW.

  I was told by another witness (a newbe witness) that JW's stick to their own kind, and do not stray outside as far as romance go's and I would have no chance at all with her...Is this true???

  She seems so nice, pure and innocent, and knowing she's a JW, I fear that not being 'one of her kind' keeps me out of the ball-park as much as our age difference - I'm just over 40 and she's just under 30.

  I was also told by a non-JW while talking about this woman, that JW's can 'appear' to show signs 'similar' to a romantic gesture by their kind nature. Hmmm, I find that this kindness or extreme 'niceness' to be true to religious people ONLY when they are talking about religion, and are like anybody else the rest of the time.

  She gave me a book called "Jesus The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived" after I mentioned a religious movie I saw. I accepted the book because I had been curoius, and also I didn't want to hurt her feelings since she thought of me enough to bring the book in. I've read a good part of it. We've talked about religion on a few occassion since then. I know she's 'very' serious about her religion and in no way did I think her giving me this book was a 'romantic' gesture, though there were 'other' times that I thought felt something with her. At times she has seemed to be receptive to my affection for her that I can't completely hide, though I've tried.

  I'm actually trying to forget about her because of our age difference, her JW religion/my non-religion and thinking I may have misinterpreted her kindness toward me as affection. But I'm still curious about if JW's sticking to their own kind rule is true.

  Thanks
• 

  XQsThaiPoes

  MRP

  Well JWs excel at being overly nice it is a wonderful way to place books. The JW religion has a serious problem in the courtship area. In the old days it was about as many men as women. THey made a priciple (simular to a venial sin) that you should only court JWs. Now there are more JWs women than men some say about 70%. So it is become more popular to court a non JW instead of scraping the bottom of the barrel of JWdom.

  The real problem are JWs tend to be legalistic, parochial, hypocritical, and pious. So your relation ship probally wont work seemlessly unless you become a JW, or both of you are tolerant and liberal. By tolerant I don't mean respecting all beliefs only. I mean tolerating the constant medaling of JWs that mean well, their peer prussure techniques, probing proding, and patronizing. It can work but imagine the whole congregation of JWs as you serogate inlaws. Many people just can't take the constant nagging of total strangers in their lives.
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  DanTheMan

  At times she has seemed to be receptive to my affection for her that I can't completely hide, though I've tried.

  Based on what you've said I would be inclined to believe that yes she does feel an attraction for you. JW's are humans with feelings and needs like everybody else. But understand that the religious environment that she is immersed in 10 to 20 hours a week consistently discourages the forming strong friendships or romantic relationships with those outside the group. This consistent discouragement comes via "counsel" and "admonishments" (Watchtower catch-phrases) in the publications and from the speaking platform (most JW meetings are little more than a series of lectures based on publications or outlines from the Watchtower Society) and also by peer pressure.

  So if she is a sincere follower of JWism then she is likely feeling very conflicted about the feelings she is having towards you, a "worldly" person. Marrying a worldly person, while not the cardinal sin of JWism, is something that will result in her being perceived as "weak in the truth" and she would be somewhat marginalized because of it. And she will never be able to tell her religious associates how wonderful her husband is or how happy her marriage is, for to do so would be a gigantic breach of JW cultural norms.
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  XQsThaiPoes

  Hey I just found out our uber elder and his wife sister uber elder got married when she was not a JW. he god passed over for his position of elder the first time for it and they waited a few years later to make him an elder. SHe Became a JW after they got married but stil this was in the 70's.he was in his early 20's. My point is JWs do this all the time. It is Just covered up. I was shocked at how many JWs whom you assume was single were married to non jws.

  A bunch of people will chim in an tell you not to consider her. WHich is an easy solution for you. If you persue this you need to be honest with her a tell her that you cant be in a realtionship where her where the oppion of the elders, congregation, and the watchtower comes in first. That you dont mind here didication to God, but she needs to draw the line when it is the oppion of her peer vs something Gods would care about.
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  blondie

  Can I ask you this? Do you want to be come a JW to marry her? That is what she may hope by witnessing to you and giving you a book to be "studied" later perhaps with a male member of her congregation. Do you know what it means to be come a JW?

  Some JWs, men and women, have married non-JWs. Women will be marginalized more than men since men are considered more valuable in the JW thinking. But depending on the congregation, it can be a setback for men to receive assignments ("privileges") in the congregation. Some bodies of elders can be more strict than others. I have been in a few that say 5 years must go by before the stain is gone from a male JW. It helps if his wife becomes a JW quite quickly. If she does not, it may take longer. These men and women are considered "bad examples to the rest of the flock."

  If you are considering having separate religious lives, be assured that it will make your marriage difficult if not painful. I attended a talk at a larger gathering of JWs (circuit assembly), where the circuit overseer (next in line as to authority above the elders) said that being married to a non-JW was like being married to a corpse, that you were kissing a corpse. That is because JWs believe that anyone not a baptized, dedicated JWw is going to be destroyed by God at the final battle, Armageddon, which is coming "soon."

  Find a nice non-JW woman to marry. They're out there.

  Blondie
• 

  RR

  Ah, in the immortal words of "Anita" from West Side Story

  A boy like that who'd kill your brother,
  Forget that boy and find another,
  One of your own kind,
  Stick to your own kind!
  A boy like that will give you sorrow,
  You'll meet another boy tomorrow,
  One of your own kind,
  Stick to your own kind! A boy who kills cannot love,
  A boy who kills has no heart.
  And he's the boy who gets your love
  And gets your heart.
  Very smart, Maria, very smart!
  
  A boy like that wants one thing only,
  And when he's done, he'll leave you lonely.
  He'll murder your love;
  He murdered mine.
  Just wait and see,
  Just wait, Maria,
  Just wait and see!
• 

  Mr Parody

  Hello again, thanks for all your replies...

  I left a crucial element out in my post. I'm a married man, she knows this. My marraige has crumbled and we've been talking about a separation/divorce. My kids are 20 & 17, the eldest is out of the house. My attention and affection has drifted to this woman. I'm also in a 'very' serious Mid-Life-Crisis to boot. For several months I've been keeping my feelings inside and have been so infatuated that I 'thought' I was in love with her. This has been killing me. I've been trying to forget about her and thinking that she's not an option due to her being about 15 years younger than me. She speaks of this "Truth" and is I believe Hard-Core JW. I found this forum because due to my Mid-Life-Crisis, failing marraige, my infatuation and my 'giving up' on the idea of this woman, I've had thoughts of dying. In search to understand my feelings of death, I found THIS forum.

  XQ's,

  This woman has been friendly and seemingly flirtatious at times BEFORE her JW came out and gave me the book. I shop where she works & I've known her for a while. So I didn't think she appraoched me just to give me a book, though I feel she's simply doing her JW duty by witnessing me. When I told her I had read some of it weeks later, her face lit up.

  Dan,

  I thought about the "human" element of course. At her age (late twenties) I'm sure she's ripe in the flirtation department, though in a reserved way. Sometimes when I've seen her, she seems distant and what I thought I felt as feelings from her don't seem to be there. Other times we've had moments that I was SURE she felt something. No doubt that her religion is push/pulling here.

  XQ's,

  I have early on told her that I was not religious, and I'm a person of science. When I told her that my family was Catholic, she says' "Ah" as if to say, that's too bad:( But I don't practice it or any religion. I've not said this to her, but I view my own beliefs as being a "free-thinker" as opposed to religious people. And what does this term "ELDER" exactly mean? I've been reading these forums and seeing this word used. I take it that it's like the church's Priest? Though I'm trying to forget her, it's very hard to get her out of my mind. I also feared that if such a relationship was to begin that I would be at odds.

  blondie,

  Knowing that she's a hard-core JW and Ive had this infatuation, I felt I would do or become anything for her. I've never had such deep feelings for anyone in my 43 years and it seemed at one time that she's the 'one'! Funny that you mention a "male member"...One day I was questioning her by asking "What about evolution"? "Neandethal man" etc... She said "Oh, that's never been proven"! To me through 'science' it HAS been proven! She didn't seem to hate me for this though as I suspected. But she then asked that if I was serious about all this, that her father could come to my house and could answer any questions I have regarding Science VS Religion. I declined...Because of my feelings for her and my existing relationship, it's too weird for me. I was VERY confused be her offer to have her FATHER no less come to my house! I though, maybe that having someone else other than HER talk to me about her religion, that she was letting me know that maybe she's NOT romantically attracted to me as I thought. But then her father? Hmmm...Besides, I don't want to be 'assimilated' as in The Borg (Star Trek Next Gen) just yet:o No I DO NOT know what it is to become a JW! After reading many posts throughout these forums, I tend to agree to what my friends have been telling me all along about staying clear. JW's here at these forums themselves seem more against being a JW than my non-JW friends! It seems sure that my current wife and I are ending out 19 years of marraige at this time. This all has been VERY painful, and I WAS considering religion in my life for the 1st time ever due to this woman. I've often felt that she was like some sort of angel sent to save me as I've been mixed up lately. I know that sound delusional of me! Another reason for me trying to forget (and I guess I should) is that she asked me if I finnished reading the book yet. BAD QUESTION! My wife was angry that another woman gave me a book and took it away - along with finding and taking away my songs that I wrote about my feelings being that I've been a musician/songwritter for many years, though not something I'm persuing anymore. I could NOT lie to her, I told her it was taken away. She told me that this is something that JW's worry about when female JW's witness to men. She told me that often they send out other males to witness males. Depite that in the past I was 'certain' I felt a mutual attraction between us, I feel this last conversation was the end of my hopes about being wth her. I thought that if she trully had feelings for me 'beyond' a simple attraction to me that she would have said something to me right then and there. Especially since in this conversation, I told her I was having problems at home and that I may be moving out! That's all she said about that was "well maybe once you get your own place, she could send a male JW to talk to me" I guess she's only interested in converting me and any attraction she has torward me are just casual feelings (I'm a decent looking guy I've been told).

  RR,

  Unfortunately I think you and my friends have been right all along. Though I would have 'definately' gave it a shot! I look at my possible future of being alone now, and no one compares to her. Besides not even being relious at all, having to deal with what I've learned about JW's mates not being a high priority to Jehova the great one. Everything I've read here in the forums about not having sex for fun, not believing in oral, only missionary position etc, etc..This almost seems 'worse' than dealing with JW vs non-religion to me!

  [sigh]
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  XQsThaiPoes

  I think she wants to convert you so she can marry you in a JW church. Yes elders are like layman preist BTW. To many JWs your willingness and entusiasm to convert is a sign of character. If you are an atheist you'll make a good JW. It is when you actually believe what they teach when you get your feelings hurt.

  As far as evolution there are 2 types of JWs manly. Those that are fundimentalist christians, and those that believe that ever the watchtower tells them. If you listen to the watchtower you might as well throw science and genesis out the window, because it matches neither well in an attempt to make them both fit. So you litteraly get a "blind watchmaker" a god that has no idea what he is doing and end up doing several things twice. I like the watchtowers rendition because they really tell you there is no proof of evolution but then explain how creation matches evolution, how some parts of genesis are wrong, not mean to be litteral, and how even if the theory of evolution is right the philosophical delimas means that any moral person would believe in Gods hand in creation.

  Speaking of I would say that if you want to marry her (her only intention is a ring on finger BTW) have a study with her father. She probally arranged you to meet up just to soften you two up to each other. I would really ask him about the weirdness of the religion and if he though his daughter wanted to get involved with you, and if she did would that be okay. JWs are so desparate for a listening ear now days he well egerly chew the fat with you. As long as you do this the watchtower claims you are a "believer", but not "in the lord". If you were baptized as some other religion maybe you can claim to be "in the lord" too but thats a hard fight.

  Right now many of JWs appealing claims about their religion is eronious,exgerated, unfounded, or based on the "no true scottsman" falacy. So they will make a false claim by exagerating beyond what ever their own books state, and if you have any proof contrary "no true christian/JW" would think, do, or say that. If you have any since of truth and know the rules of argumentation or logic then you can't really progress well in JWs. Because basically there religion is ran by lawyers and professional writers that deliberately use falacies to sway an largely uneducated audience. For years JWs that were not at the top of the organization or wealthy were forbidden to go to college. Now it is different but the damage is done. Now they are really using the same tactics but in the 3rd world they only get results because more people as a whole are going to college in the west.
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  Wild_Thing

  I agree with everyone else. She wants to convert you, no doubt! She may possibly be thinking of you in more of a romantic way, but if she is as devout as you say, I doubt that is the case if she knows you are a married man. Unless you want to be a JW, I would not walk, but run very far away from this woman! Just my opinion ...
• 

  Mr Parody

  XQ's,

  As much as I'd like to believe she 'really' is interested in me that way as I originally thought by her kindness torward me, I'm having great doubts that I've been imagining all this. It's very hard to say but I really thought at one time if there was 'any' woman who was showing an interest this is it. But a man nearing mid-life has an imagination! "lol"

  I feel her beliefs are a little over the top and border-line strange. For example "Adam & Eve" She thinks of this as the truth and factual while my religious best friend (raised Catholic) see's this as just a story to prove a point. I can't really swallow that as truth as well as MANY other stories.

  Why do you say she wants a "ring on her finger" as her only intention? Couldn't she just be spreading the word to me of her religion as she's told to do? And why do Atheists make good Jehova's ?[chuckles]

  When you say Jehova's try to appeal to uneducated people, funny is that she seems 'very' intelligent and educated. Also funny is how can someone that seems so mature and wise for her age believe in 'everything' their told to believe in. I come from a 'show me/prove it' backround.

  Even still if I had a chance, I would have to explore a relationship, but I'm just having a difficult time getting her out of my system and I feel her treatment toward me gave me hope to be with her. It seems to be gone...? I don't know, I'm a sucker for a pretty face & nice 'seemingly' wholesome woman.