If this doesn't work this time please DF me ... my 1/2 day at an IBSA conv. (page 2)

Deleted

Min, I'm sorry that I gave that impression (lost my password for Glenmore, sorry about that too). It's a bit awkward explaining everything I do as it relates to Rutherford, I'm writing a black comedy about the Ancient Worthies returning in 2005 instead of 1935, and they are really quite obnoxious, as much as their conjourer was back in the 30's. It's a be careful what you wish for sort of thing, names are changed but the principle's the same. To make the feelings work I am interested in the difference between his followers (notably Knorr and Franz) and Russell's. And I can like Russell's stuff without believing it can't I? I like lots of things I don't believe. A Belief isn't important to me. My grief with the WTS stems organizationally, not the fundamental doctrines. I like several things about the Bible Students and I muse what might happen if the JDubya's were more like their distant cousins. That, this, my guitar, my family, my dogs and work are my hobbies. I do need to exercise tho'. Glen

minimus

"I like lots of things I don't believe". Now, this I can understand!

Glenmore

For me that would include my Mum, my mother-in-law, my cousin Gloria, and Robert E Lee and The South and Bill Clinton and the Da Vinci Code and Russellism. Nite nite.

RR

Hey Glen, just a few clarications:

I did meet one convert; the rest seemed to be raised-in-its. As you might expect (and a lot like the Benfleet Essex congregation) there were few young people; and just a couple of kids ? RR sez that depends on the area. I liked the fact there were lots of breaks and the hymnal had regular hymns in it as well as IBSA ones.

Most Bible Students are 2nd 3rd and 4th generation. But I do meet quite a few converts.

There are about 10,000 worldwide in ecclesias (classes) ? RR sez no one really knows as there?s no central authority to keep track.

That is the estimate that is given. But there really is no way of knowing for sure. And since there are different sects of Bible Students, who do the 10,000 belong too? We don't take roll call, or have publisher cards, we have no governing Body or central office. Every so often we find new gatherings of Bible Students, like when the iron curtain fell, we found Bible Students lost in time since the first World War. Bible Students in Siberia and other isolated areas.

There are two in Portland (Gresham and Tigard) but the Gresham one has two sides (liberal/conservative?). A few of the ones I talked to traveled a lot. Places like India and Romania. They use the Internet a lot and keep in touch via email. It was kinda sweet.

Most Bible Student conventions are aired lived over the internet, when the convention is over the program is then uploaded to the net so that others can hear the tpresentations on mp3's, along with any handouts available for download.

There are also online meetings held each day of the wek at different times, these can be question meetings, topical studies or volume studies and Bible Studies. As many as 50 people may be logged on from all over the world, Romania, Japan, Poland, USA, some of these brethren get up at 4 am to attend and participate.

One of the points they made was how frustrating it was for the Bible Students of yore to wait on the Lord while Rutherford took control of the WTS. Apparently a number of them had found their suitcases outside Bethel when they came in one day. [RR sez many left as soon as Rutherford took over, realizing the poor character of the man] If you weren?t a Rutherford man you were out. They consider that Rutherford and the JWs left the Truth, not vice versa. He?s the man of sin and the evil slave.

Yep, it's like having your own flesh and blood stab you in the back, you're stunned and hope they'll come to their senses. It didn't happen and when it was finally realized, it was too late.

The elders in my class (Jersey City, NJ) Br. Anton Frey and others personally knew Rutherford, and when he became president, they immediately withdrew their support and became independent. Br. Frey died in the 1980s, his wife died in 1992 I believe, they were married or 75 years. Their only daughter is a Bible Student and is in her late 80s.

Bill said there were some that had a speculation about 2033/4 - I had told him about the dubs latest 2034. But it was something to do with so many years past 1874 (the original 1914). He also said someone had 1994 as the date - 120 years past 1874, sounds familiar? But it was spoken of fairly lightheartedly. It didn?t matter, they would go to Heaven when the time came. Bill said that there would have to be peace in literal Israel first.

There have always been individuals who have felt they knew when the end was coming and have written about it. But these dates were never officially adopted by the BIble Students as a whole. Just a few here and there who felt they knew based on their studies. Currently I believe there are two individuals who are promoting 2034 and 2043, but no one pays them any mind.

Mike was a 25-yr-convert and liberal (his words). And he said that at the table and nobody looked at him funny or got up to leave. He said out loud that some Students hang on every word from Pastor Russell, he didn?t but he respected his work.

Yep, and that would be the difference bewteen Ultra Conservatibe ("the hanger uppers") and the conservatives (those who accept the Plan by Russell but have a few differences in details.

RR

willyloman

...where about 30 meet in what sounded like 2 ecclessias... One a bit more liberal than the other...

So it's like Kirstie Alley's "liberal ordnung" in the movie with Tim Allen ("For Richer or Poorer")!

outoftheorg

I CAN'T BELIEVE SOME OF THE THINGS I LIKE.

DON'T ASK.

Outoftheorg

Nosferatu

Interesting post. It's kinda neat to see where the Bible Students are, and what they're up to these days.

Bubbamar

Outoftheorg - why is yours the only post on this thread that made any sense to me?

LOL

jgnat

Glenmore, a nicely written inside peek. I like visiting other denominations, and I agree, I don't have to share their beliefs to enjoy observing them in action. The first time I experienced an Anglican service, I was most impressed that the entire crowd responded in kind. From my evangelical background, I thought it was a remarkable example of the Holy Spirit moving everyone at once. THEN I noticed all the words were pre-printed in a little book. Kewl!

At my first Catholic wedding, I delighted in all the symbology. It was everywhere; on the walls, the stained-glass windows, the altar accoutrements. The altar seemed so much more OT altar-ish, with its' incense pots and byzantine overnotes. Such decoration makes sense for a pre-industrialized, pre-printing press religion. It made me wonder if modern churches have lost something vital, with their post-industrial, spare decoration.

outoftheorg

WELL BUBBAMAR, I GUESS THAT MEANS WE BOTH HAVE THE SAME TWISTED MIND SETS.

I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU BUB.

Outoftheorg

If this doesn't work this time please DF me ... my 1/2 day at an IBSA conv.

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