by gumby 245 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Hey! I started my comments on this thread by saying that I consider myself to be fairly harmless, helpful even. I do consider myself a bit of an expert on my self. If people strive to be like the god they serve, then my Christian God is kind and generous.
Can I not claim, then, at least, that this Christian is harmless?
Can I not claim, then, at least, that this Christian is harmless?
No you cannot jgnat.....cuz I heard you chased people arouind with hatchets when you get all mad and stuff
Ozzmeister, perhaps others arguments should have a little more backing if they are going to stand up against the "Great and powerfull" OZMEISTER!
Nice argument.
Gumby
It never ceases to amaze me how one-sided people can look at an issue from.
They can highlight the bad, without any regard for the good (and vice-versa).
Also the context is rarely taken into account.
For example, it's rare today to hear of public burnings / beheadings / stonings, yet they used to be commonplace in years gone by.
So why do we point to these acts as if they suddenly also applied in a modern day contemporary setting?
Religion was completely integrated into society, in years gone by. It affected every aspect of life, from politics through to daily misdemeanors.
With regards to Christendom, previous to the last four hundred years, there was only really the Roman Catholic Church in the Western world.
We grow by standing on the shoulders of our forefathers. Religion is little more than a tool for many, these days (like many other "common interest groups"). It will continue to evolve, as it has always done. Hence talk of "stamping it out" is somewhat naive, methinks.
That is funny, gumby. Considering that I DID have weapon and chopping block in hand this weekend, and I was seriously provoked. Neighbours!
I DID have weapon and chopping block in hand this weekend, and I was seriously provoked. Neighbours!
If I ever live next door to you.....I promise I will rake your leaves and mow your yard for free!
*gits all shaky and stuff imagining jgnat chasin him with a hatchet*
LT.....nicely put and I agree. Just don't be a gittin any ideas I'm startin to love Jesus all over again though cuz he's just an aquaintence still.....not a relative.
Gumby
Gumby:
LT.....nicely put and I agree. Just don't be a gittin any ideas I'm startin to love Jesus all over again though cuz he's just an aquaintence still.....not a relative.
That would be your business, not mine
You've conducted a really even debate here, congrats.
It's nice to see someone pose questions to both sides, for a change, rather than see people's positions in a thread get intractable.
Gumby,
Thank you for your response and questions my dear friend. As always you have made some good observations and questions. Here is my response,
WHY would we be better off without a religious/spiritual belief system, if those individual beliefs bring no harm?
I have stated on this subject various times, I have no problem with people believing the way they want as long as they allow others to believe what they want to believe. Hell, I wouldn't care if they worshipped a tree as long as they don't shove it down my throat. Unfortunately our western religion philosophies do not allow for this tolerance of others beliefs. My religious beliefs? I like how Wayne Dyer put in in his book, "Your Erroneous Zones"
"The leaders of the church have misconstrued the teachings of the great religious leaders and attempted to teach conformity by using fear of retribution as a weapon. Thus a man behaves morally not because he believes it to be appropriate for him, but because God wants him to behave that way. If in doubt, consult the commandments rather than yourself and what you believe. Behave because someone has told you to and because you will be punished if you don't, not because you know it to be the right behavior for you. Organized religion appeals to your approval seeking needs. It may produce the same behavior that you would have chosen, but you haven't chosen it freely."
"Using yourself as a guide and not needing the approval of an outside force is most religious experience you can have. It is a veritable religion of itself in which an individual determines his own behavior based upon his own conscience and the laws of his culture that work for him, rather than because someone has dictated how he should behave. A careful look at Jesus Christ will reveal an extremely self-actualized person, an individual who preached self-reliance and was not afraid to incur disapproval. Yet many of his followers have twisted his teachings into a catechism of fear and self hate."
Do you think mankind would be more productive and advance further since he would not be waiting on god to fix things? Do Christians today not get things done because they wait on god? Who are they? (dubs not included)
We have made major advances in the last few hundred years but just think of the advances we could make if we put all our energy into helping one another and not in ways of destroying one another. Yes I think we would be farther ahead if we didn't wait on God to fix things or the "get what we can now for what does it matter because we have that heavenly reward in the end" attitude. A lot of Christians are very successful individually but again how much more successful we would be as a human race if we were all working together for a common goal. Religion in the past has being a big divisive force, a hindrance into slowing down progress.
Also......in what way do you think mankind will destroy himself if he keeps being religious? Why isn't man dead now since he has 'believed' since his beginning?
Look at all the great wars and crusades that have being started and propagated by religion because "God was on our side". This is a good question and the answer is NO, we have not destroyed ourselves till now but we are now at a time in history where a push of a button by some fanatic could start the beginning of the end. The Genie is out of the bottle now and there is no way of putting it back. Eventually with today's technology it is just a matter of time that some pissed off fanatic, with a nuclear bomb in a briefcase, walks into the middle of a major city and poof its gone!!! Religion has to take the blame as they have being a big part of escalating the hate for one another.
Will
intractable
adjective FORMAL
very difficult and seeming to be impossible to control, manage or solve:
By joe....for a thread 'such as this' ...to go as long as it has without fists and feets a flyin, is quite an accomplishment if I do say so myself!!!! *gets all arrogant and stuff* Were it not for you and the Ozmeister..along with others to help keep the peace, it may not have went as well. Thanks to everyone for being so nice. Gumby ps............................ I had to fit my little sheep in there somewhere.
Mebbie it's because everyone who has participated in this thread just happens to also be very, very nice. Yep, the meanies, even the blue ones
submarine.
Flyin'
(blue meanie bebu slowly emerges from a big yellow submarine...)
....
...Naaw. This was an interesting thread, and I appreciated the tone of discussion.
I think what's frustrating is that individually and collectively, we know where we should be--and others often know as well--and we fail to be there consistently. We have to acknowledge that--we must be honest. I can't understand how God could use any of us while we are yet so far from where we should be... but I believe somehow that He can.
bebu
