You Know's Seared Conscience

by Seeker 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    [Moving this to its own thread so as to avoid hijacking the original thread to a new topic.]

    When I pointed out how You Know was associating with apostates by being here, as the Society has pointed out, he responded:

    My conscience doesn't bother me. If it did I wouldn't be here.

    Good point, your conscience has been so seared you no longer recognize wrongdoing when you commit it.

    The fact is that the Scriptures condemn inviting apostates into ones home.

    Just as they condemn any bad association in your home. For instance, the Society has applied that principle to not bringing pornography into your home via the television or computer. You, on the other hand, invite apostates into your home all the time, via this site. Or do you feel it is OK to view pornography on your computer, but not if the actress actually shows up at your house?

    Typically, if a person says a greeting to one or invites them into their home, that means they are friends.

    And you typically greet apostates here, usually with rude greetings, but greetings nonetheless. As for inviting them into your home, I already said above how you do that.

    Certainly you wouldn't invite someone into your home as a guest so that you could expose them as frauds and rebuke them.

    That is precisely what you do when you invite the thoughts of apostates onto your computer screen in your home.

    So it is that I don't consider posting messages on a public forum to oppose and expose apostates the same as inviting them into my home.

    And if all you ever did was that, you might have a point. But you always go beyond posting your initial messages to respond to those who post, thereby engaging them in extended conversation. Since you are not even to "say a greeting" to such ones, your conversations with them are condemned by the scriptures and by the Society.

    I would never befriend or associate with any of you people.

    Yet you associate with us all the time. The only thing lacking is our physical presensce from your home, but our ideas are routinely invited in. May as well watch Jerry Falwell on your TV -- after all, he's not physcially in your living room, so it hardly counts according to you.

    But, because apostates insist on setting your baited traps this way in order to ensnare some unsuspecting brother or sister of mine, it is my conscience and faith that moves me to respond. / You Know

    Just like Uzzah.

  • Copernicus
    Copernicus
    Just like Uzzah.

    Hey Seeker . . . that was an absolutely PERFECT closer! ROTFL

  • You Know
    You Know
    your conscience has been so seared you no longer recognize wrongdoing when you commit it.

    LOL. And just how are you able to diagnose my conscience? And I suppose posting on the Internet, slapping apostates around, is the "wrongdoing" that has supposedly done in my conscience. That's a hoot man.

    For instance, the Society has applied that principle to not bringing pornography into your home via the television or computer. You, on the other hand, invite apostates into your home all the time, via this site.

    Sure, I know the Wt has applied that principle that way. But it is just that---a principle---and not a law as you might imagine. Every Witness has at some time or another disputed with someone at the door over some doctrinal point. The Trinity was originally a doctrine that sprang from mentally diseased, apostate, anointed ones. Does that mean that a Witness violates a principle on bad association if he disputes or studies the doctrine in order to verify its falsity? Of course not. The Society naturally wants to protect the brothers and sisters, much like a parent might, so they use those types of principles to discourage the friends from getting mixed up with you people. And I am glad they do. But, there are exceptions to such principles. Christ, for example, was commanded to go only to the lost sheep of Israel, yet on occasion he ventured to Sidon and Samaria and helped non-Jews. So, you really can't judge how I may serve Jehovah.

    And you typically greet apostates here, usually with rude greetings, but greetings nonetheless.

    That's just plain silly. The Scriptures condemn befriending those who have apostatized from the truth. I am constantly accused because I am not "loving" and "kind" to apostates while they are raping and pillaging. In fact, it seems that that's about the last cork in the apostate's pop gun to shoot at me---that I am somehow not Christian because I don't deal so kindly with Jehovah's enemies. Yet, now you are accusing me of being chums with apostates. You can't have it both ways. You can't have it either way really. Obviously you are desperate to find some accusation, and, any old accusation will do if you can make it stick, right?

    But you always go beyond posting your initial messages to respond to those who post, thereby engaging them in extended conversation. Since you are not even to "say a greeting" to such ones, your conversations with them are condemned by the scriptures and by the Society.

    I don't suppose you have ever read the book of Job? Job conversed for days with his apostate accusers; round after round after round; argument and counter-argument. He would make a speech, then his accusers would counter; then Job would respond to their argument. God didn't condemn Job for that. In fact, the whole thing took place by God's allowance. Obviously, Jehovah knows the issues of apostates today. While I can see the wisdom of his in not allowing the organization to be distracted with your issues, it is entirely in keeping with Jehovah's determination to settle the issues once and for all, that he would place some of his servants in the fire to be grilled by those who boast that no one can stand up to the so-called "truth about the truth." Paul in fact stated that God had set some anointed Christians on 'exhibition as a theatrical spectacle' before even the angels, as well as men and the world.

    Isaiah 29:21 says that God is going to finish off "those who lay bait even for the one reproving in the gate, and those who push aside the righteous one with empty arguments." Jehovah doesn't condemn those who do the reproving the apostate, but rather his judgment is against the bragger and tyrant that dismisses the truth with vain arguments. Obviously for Jehovah judgment to come about, his people would have to have some dealings with the bad guys, yet they are not held guilty by God.

    Yet you associate with us all the time. The only thing lacking is our physical presensce from your home, but our ideas are routinely invited in.

    I "associate" with you because this is a public forum and here is where the ongoing fight is being fought. I have no interest in apostasy. I don't read the web sites you people put up. But as long as apostates have this kind of platform to engage others in an active dialouge I suspect that Jehovah will always have one of his own there too. If not me, than perhaps someone else.

    Your ideas are also routinely rejected. That's the whole point. Jesus disputed with the Devil on several occasions. It even says that Christ was led by the spirit to be tempted by the Devil. Christ wasn't so sheltered that he ran from any encounter. It was God's will that he be directly subjected to the Devil's sly temptations. Jehovah knows his loyal ones can stand up to the apostate because God's word and spirit is far superior to anything you have. That is what is being demonstrated on this forum. We know it, God knows it, and I suspect the demons know it too. / You Know

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Your entire response comes down to "Yes, the Society does say that, but there are exceptions and I am one of them." Fine, you can exempt yourself from the Society's explicit instructions to not do what you do all the time, but in so doing you are following the path of Uzzah. He, too, felt that the explicit rules didn't actually apply to him in that particular instance, for if he didn't step in some damage would be done to Jehovah's reputation.

    Your God rejected such reasoning then. Nothing you said makes me think He approves of what you are doing now. And we both know how the Society would feel if they caught you here. None of your appeals to Hebrew Scripture types would avail you then.

  • chipster
    chipster

    personally speaking, i admire the courage and strength of character You Know has displayed here. he has gone head to head and toe to toe with adversaries of the truth. i respect that.
    i wonder if all the fat was boiled off of the dialogue on this board, and principles were placed before personalities, what the net content would amount to...
    admittedly, i am DF'd and not associating with the congregation any longer, and perhaps i am scanning for "chinks in the armor" of the organization, which many are very quick to point out, but i see or hear no message of hope here. i see, smell, hear, and taste a lot of toxic waste. i do hear a lot of complaining and whining and bitterness and anger directed towards an organization that the same posters were once part of. i don't know, but i'm just not ready to throw rocks at a house that i chose to live in for almost 40 years, but have since moved out of.
    You Know.....do not tire out or give up in your battle with the enemies of jehovah. someone has to have the courage to stay here and do battle with satan, his demons, and these apostate bastards. i admire and respect you. i don't know if i'll ever make it back. or if i even choose to return, but i know one thing....YOU are a fighter for the truth. and for that, i honor you.

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    Hi YK,

    The more I study religion of all sorts the more I see that it is the efforts of man to help him cope with the truth of the matter that he is just another animal in the scheme of nature. I don't think the creator(if there is really one out there) has anymore consideration for man than any other animal. We all face the same fate, death, whether by accident, disease, old age or other means. If you don't agree, show me an example contrary to this using facts, not some words recorded in a book written by man.

    You may say there is holy spirit from God, if so demonstrate it's power in some manner that one can see or feel. Even the GB doesn't claim to be inspired by it, only guided by it in some mysterious way that let's them keep making mistakes just like those without it.

    It would be really great if I were wrong, but I have more evidence for my point of view than you for yours. You have faith you are right, I have everyday events to prove my view.

    What happens after death??? No one knows, we can only hope for something more but I don't think we should waste our present life banking on the future, unless of course that is what you chose.

    My 5 cents worth.

    Ken P.

  • Rex B13
    Rex B13

    Well Seeker,
    You used up all of your wit on a troll again. Big deal, eh?

    Here's this week's tough question:
    What's an agnostic tell a child about the death of a loved one or when a child asks, "what happens to someone when they die"?
    Ooops, was that "below the belt"?
    Rex

  • Copernicus
    Copernicus

    If I might answer for Seeker -

    What's an agnostic tell a child about the death of a loved one or when a child asks, "what happens to someone when they die"?

    Hmmmm. . . I see, rather then the simple, truthful answer: no one knows what happens when someone dies (though likely nothingness) we should instead fabricate some complex and unprovable fantasy about life after death. Do I have it right? Isn't that the point of every major religion - substantiation of their particular fantasy? Isn't that why they were invented in the first place?

    Yes, I suppose that lying to the child would make him feel so much better. In any case, I imagine that we'll all find our own answer some day.

  • You Know
    You Know
    you are following the path of Uzzah. He, too, felt that the explicit rules didn't actually apply to him in that particular instance, for if he didn't step in some damage would be done to Jehovah's reputation.

    That is not an appropriate comparison. Uzzah violated God's law, not some principle that someone felt should apply in that situation. Not that Bible principles should be quickly set aside, not at all, but in cases involving a Christian's conscience, there may be, and often are, various counter principles that must be weighed when making a decision. Jehovah's spirit brings true Christian freedom, and because each ones conscience responds differently, those who truly walk by God's spirit may not always appear to be in step with those who want to lay down rules for walking and dictate the pace of the stride. No doubt as an x-Society man and x-elder you were once big on enforcing certain rules that you mistook for God's law. You evidently still have that mindset and impulse to judge others by that same now rapidly shrinking yardstick. / You Know

  • Sunchild
    Sunchild
    What's an agnostic tell a child about the death of a loved one or when a child asks, "what happens to someone when they die"?


    Hm, I have a better question. What's a good Christian such as yourself supposed to tell a child when an unsaved loved one dies?

    *Rochelle.

    ---------
    "Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
    -- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

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