Chapter One: JWs believe in Reincarnation

ezekiel3

JWs will say they believe in a resurrection of dead humans to earth (the most ancient to be Abel, son of Adam) after God destroys wicked mankind in Armeggedon. They use the word ?resurrection? based on:

*** rs p. 333 Resurrection ***
Definition: A·na´sta·sis, the Greek word translated ?resurrection,? literally means ?a standing up again? and it refers to a rising up from death.

So how will Abel?s long decayed remains be resurrected?

*** ts chap. 19 p. 171 Billions Now Dead Will Soon Live Again ***Moreover, it would not be reasonable to insist that precisely the same atoms be regathered to form their restored body. After death, and through the process of decay, the human body is converted into other organic chemicals. These may be absorbed by plants, and people may eat these plants or their fruit. Thus the atomic elements making up the deceased person can eventually come to be in other people. Obviously, at the time of the resurrection the identical atoms cannot be reassembled in every person brought back from the dead.

So that means a new body?

*** ts chap. 19 p. 172 Billions Now Dead Will Soon Live Again ***
?But if a person is thus re-created,? someone may say, ?is he really the same person? Is he not just a copy?? No, for this reasoning overlooks the fact earlier mentioned that even in life our bodies are constantly undergoing change. About seven years ago the molecules making up our bodies were different from the molecules forming them today. We even differ in appearance as the years go by. Yet, do we not have the same fingerprints? Are we not the same persons? Most certainly.

Now which of the two following definitions apply?

RESURRECT [fr. to rise again] To restore to life; to reanimate; to bring to view again (that what was forgotten or lost); also, to exhume. Webster?s New Collegiate Dictionary

REINCARNATE To cause to be reborn in another body; incarnate again. The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

Narkissos

Good one Ezekiel.

But the basic problem of the JW doctrine still remains: a reincarnation of what? -- since no soul, no spirit, no "I" is supposed to survive death. Actually the JW resurrection is a kind of supercloning, the creation of an exact copy of you with your appearance, your personality and your memories -- but it is still not you. Of course he/she will not be able to tell, and neither will you...

Terry

Ezekiel13, I praise your cleverness! We are not worthy! We are not worthy!

A most ingenious argument. Not just insightful either. It calls a spade a spade.

The CONCEPT of resurrection has been co-opted by JW's. Like all their stolen concepts they proceed to redefine them.

This is what mind-rape is all about.

Leolaia

*** ts chap. 19 p. 172 Billions Now Dead Will Soon Live Again ***?But if a person is thus re-created,? someone may say, ?is he really the same person? Is he not just a copy?? No, for this reasoning overlooks the fact earlier mentioned that even in life our bodies are constantly undergoing change. About seven years ago the molecules making up our bodies were different from the molecules forming them today. We even differ in appearance as the years go by. Yet, do we not have the same fingerprints? Are we not the same persons? Most certainly.

This argument posits a red herring. Molecular change in a person's body over time is not the same as "re-creation". The latter term inherently implies a discontinuity; it refers to a process of body creation that is distinct from that which resulted in the destroyed original. Molecular change over time is continued maintenance, growth, and decay of the original creation. The situation is different because "re-creation" involves the discontinuity of death; molecular change in the ordinary maintenance of a person's body does not involve death. Isn't that an important difference? It is, because this argument is used to disprove the obvious notion that re-creation is the process of making a copy. A copy is discontinuous with the original. So is a re-created body from the destroyed original. Ordinary body maintenance is not discontinuous; it is by its very nature continuous. Thus, the argument given in the quote above is very specious.

Note also that it isn't just the body that is discontinuous. The Society denies that the existence of a personality-bearing soul, which would also establish continuity with the original (as it does in the orthodox belief in the resurrection). So the re-creation is basically a clone that has been given your memories, and thinks he or she is you, but lacks any material or spiritual connection with you. That's not resurrection.

Tashawaa

The resurrection use to scare the s**t out of me, starting from the time I was 5 years old. I think my first question was "how will you know its me????"

Especially, when I'd hear in talks (did it ever go to print?) that we might not be resurrected looking the same? So not the same body. No soul. Somewhere in my mind I knew that some clone would get to enjoy forever, in my place, while I'm DEAD.

I was suppose to just "trust" in Jehovah, that we're in in memory. Yah, but how? PLUS the thought that this cloned "me" wouldn't be able to marry or have kids....

sucks

Out of all the religious afterlifes offered, the JW concept one was the worse.

Leolaia

Tashawaa...I was 7 when I came to the same realization. It was during the book study when we considered the "Life" book. It's such an illogical notion even a child can see through it.

In fact, when I grew older, I privately made up my own compromise belief. There is a scripture in Psalms that says that the spirit returns to God when we die. So I thought that in the resurrection, the same spirit would return into a new body, but that there would then be continuity. It's almost virtually the same idea as a soul, except that I thought the spirit didn't have a conscious life after death -- it is only when it is reunited with flesh that it can again perceive the world consciously. That was my attempt to harmonize the WT belief with logic as well as with the Bible. I never told anyone of my belief, as it would have made me an "apostate," but I only held such an idea in order to make sense of the WT teaching.

Poztate

Obviously, at the time of the resurrection the identical atoms cannot be reassembled in every person brought back from the dead.

Leolaia

Some early Christian apocalyptic paradigms (especially those influenced by Stoicism) believed that the present heavens and earth would be completely destroyed, with the very elements making up creation melting and changing state into fire, which would then cool into cooler elements and reconstitute a renewed creation. This accommodated the older Jewish belief that bodies of the dead would be reconstituted from the earth and restored.

TheOldHippie

Eternity is quite different from "a very long time", not just in quantity, but also in quality, so that everything which is conceivably possible - will happen.

"When you've been buried in your grave for a hundred million years - a fraction of a second of eternity will have elapsed."

ezekiel3

Hippie: Yes that's right, just go to sleep and everything will be alright.

Chapter One: JWs believe in Reincarnation

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