?The Organization? Denied Us Holy Spirit

jst2laws

I have found that Jw?s and most former Jw?s have a distorted view of how the holy spirit works. After years of hearing the ?mind numbing? phrase ?Jehovah?s spirit directed organization? we forgot how the spirit really works.

We accepted the 1985 change in the baptismal questions acknowledging the Father and Son but relegating the spirit?s to guiding the ?spirit directed organization?

On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

The second is:

Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah?s Witnesses in association with God?s spirit-directed organization?

WT 1986 6/1 p30

While we now know this was wrong here is the SHOCKER:

SCRIPTURALLY the spirit of God NEVER OPERATES ON AN ORGANIZATION OR ON A CHURCH.

It only ?moves?, ?fills? or operates on INDIVIDUALS.

Do a word search on WT Library with quotations marks ( ?holy spirit? ) and you will find no reference to congregation, association or organization. It always operates on INDIVIDUAL people.

Try and see what you get. Share some examples with us.

Jst2laws

Gordy

Correct

Thats because they didn't want anyone else to benefit by it.

LittleToe

Agreed.
It's amazing what picture forms, when you read the bible without the WTS glasses on:

Math.12:31,32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matt.28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even
Mark.13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Luke.3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Luke.12:!2 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
John.14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Acts.5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts.7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Acts.13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Acts.13:4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
Acts.15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts.16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
Acts.21:11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
1Cor.6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
2Cor.13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
Heb.2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
Heb.3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Rom.15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

(All quotes in the King James Version)

jst2laws

Ross, Try this:

But when they are leading YOU along to deliver YOU up, do not be anxious beforehand about what to speak; but whatever is given YOU in that hour, speak this, for YOU are not the ones speaking, but the holy spirit is Mark 13:11

But when they are leading YOU along to deliver YOU up, do not be anxious beforehand about what to speak; but whatever is given YOU in that hour, speak this, for YOU are not the ones speaking, but the holy spirit is Mark 13:11

The scriptural plan is the answer will be "given YOU" as to what to speak. It is not something given by the organization in advance preparation but 'given you IN THAT HOUR'.

I am telling the truth in Christ; I am not lying, since my conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit Rom 9:1

I am telling the truth in Christ; I am not lying, since my conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit Rom 9:1

On conscience issues we were never allowed to decide for ourselves but had to look of a WT ruling, as the org was "spirit directed". Scripturally we are to our own 'conscience' make the judgment "in holy spirit".

Jst2laws

gumby

LT....you biblical literary bastage you!

The scriptures you provided clearly show to believers that the spirit spoken of would ALWAYS come upon or act upon an individual person......not a GROUP of persons representing the others. It was always refered to operating on each person in a paticular manner although these individuals might be "grouped" together while gathering together and the spirit would operate "individually" on "each" person gathered.

Here's the damn part I didn't like though......

Luke.3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him

Heck....I always thought the dude was a guy like you!!!!

Gumby

LittleToe

Gumby:Naww, it's like the Seraphim faces thang.

Elohim = Bull
YHWH/Iesuos = Lion/Lamb
HS = Bird/Eagle/Dove
Last face is of a man...

Steve:
In that context Rom.14:14 is a favourite of mine:
"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

codeblue

Very interesting thread Steve

Narkissos

The wind (= Spirit) blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

Somewhat related, although the word "Spirit" does not appear:

As for you, the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and so you do not need anyone to teach you.

minimus

They denied us "Holy Ghost" too! .....If a former JW will believe that holy spirit is a person, it means they are still believers in the Bible. Most don't believe in the Bible here.

LittleToe

Min:
Do you have an issue with folks discussing Bible-based issues?
Do you not get the point that this is merely discussing that the Bible says something completely different from what the WTS says? Can't you see the worth in discussing that?

It's also quite possible to discuss it without any "belief" in it at all - ask Didier...

?The Organization? Denied Us Holy Spirit

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