Asian House Churches - Freedom of Worship question...

by LittleToe 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  LittleToe

  I recently saw a TV program highlighting the plight of folks in Vietnam, regarding freedom to worship.
  It appears that in several countries in the Far East (e.g. China, Vietnam, etc.) there are formal bodies set up to regulate religion (not just Christianity). Any who fall outside such prescriptive measures can be fined, imprisoned, beaten and tortured.

  I had heard about this previously, when reading the book "The Heavenly Man", which concentrated on China's "House Churches", an underground Christian movement which simply worships in small groups. The recent program brought it acutely to mind, though.

  With all the anti-religious debate that we've seen on this board during recent months, I just wondered where people stood on the subject of free speech. I do appreciate individual choice not to be proselytised, but what about folks who genuinely want some form of personally chosen religion in their lives?

  Do you applaude the efforts of the Chinese / Vietnamese / etc. governments, to strictly regulate religion using whatever means are at their disposal?
  Do you see it as an affront to basic human rights?
  Do you have any other relevant opinion, to the topic at hand?
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  under74

  Little Toe- I'm not really sure how I feel on the subject. While I think people should have the freedom to worship as they wish without any fears...I have some old resentments. This isn't to say the resentments I hold are right, I'm just being honest. I'd like to say that if there are any JWs in Vietnam they should be able to be JWs without their government interfering but in the back of my head the little voice says "they love the persecution." I haven't let go of some of the hate I hold....but I'm working on it.
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  Narkissos

  Isn't there something of an oxymoron in the phrase "freedom of religion"?

  As xJWs we know pretty well how "freedom of religion" can mean "freedom of enslavement," especially for many children.

  I don't believe in law or police against this, rather in education and information.

  Don't mess with religion within houses, but make sure everyone in the house has free access to the outer world...
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  Scully

  It seems kind of silly to attempt to regulate or legislate what people genuinely believe. All you end up with is people claiming to believe along the lines of the proscribed set of beliefs, when in fact, they do not. In order to implement this kind of thing, a government would need to adopt an Orwellian kind of "thought police" and develop laws against "thought crime".

  I don't see a problem with implementing educational programs that show the kinds of unscrupulous and extremely subtle means of hooking people into abusive systems.... whether we are talking about interpersonal relationships, business dealings or religious groups.

  Love, Scully
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  Xena

  I don't believe in law or police against this, rather in education and information.

  ditto!
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  Fe2O3Girl

  I disagree with state restrictions on religion for two reasons: firstly, it is wrong, and if the tiniest crackpot religion is banned, all others only exist by permission, which is no freedom at all; and secondly, it is counter-productive for the reasons outlined by other posters, including the ecstacy of persecution and forcing activity out of the public domain.

  As Narkissos and Scully said, information and education about the behaviour of high control religious groups is a much better protection of the public. And anything we can do to move towards a society where people do not need to go to cults to have their needs met is where our energies should be directed.
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  StinkyPantz

  Do you applaude the efforts of the Chinese / Vietnamese / etc. governments, to strictly regulate religion using whatever means are at their disposal?

  No way! Even though the U.S. doesn't always hold true to their own standards, a separation of church and state (for the most part) seems like a great idea to me. Some minor regulations should apply though. That being said, beatings and torturing is rarely called for. The only time I'd be okay with that is if some religion advocated beating and torturing people.. in that case, the punishment would fit the crime.

  Do you see it as an affront to basic human rights?

  Yes. The freedom to practice your own religion (from Satanism to Christianity) is a basic human right as long as you aren't hurting yourself or others imho.
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  Princess

  Do you have any other relevant opinion, to the topic at hand?

  Dang, I was going to go off on another topic altogether....

  I really appreciate the fact that we have relative freedom of worship. Regardless of our beliefs, we all feel some sort of persecution from the other side. I can't imagine going through life with the government forcing their religion down my throat.
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  Markfromcali

  Hey Ross,

  The thing that occurs to me is you can't regulate spirituality, however you want to interpret the idea of spirit, even if you get really anal and try really hard. The fact that these people get together in small groups just goes to show they will always find a way. And as far as asians go, I can tell ya from being one and knowing others that there is a gung-hoism factor that err... Well, actually goes deeper and be a challenge to efforts in stamping it out. If anything it is the same if not stronger than the regulatory efforts by the government.

  But more importantly any effort to try to control the external will just reinforce the notion that that's 'where it's at.' Regardless of which side you're on that larger dynamic between the two sides is being stirred up and reinforced. In that respect I kind of agree with the point about education, but ultimately I don't think that goes far enough, because depending on the type of education it may lack the depth which is required to deepen the individuals' consciousness. Only being informed on the level of information may leave one with an existential angst which we see on this board, with people who are otherwise very intelligent and certainly very well informed in this regard.
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  LittleToe

  Didier:
  That would be why I intentionally used the phrase "freedom of worship"

  I agree that education is a big factor.

  Mark:
  The ever elusive "spirituality".
  I agree that external factors can sometimes focus attention on things external.
  However when the physical has been stripped away and all that is left ther is privation, sometimes the internal can blossom.