by hubert 20 Replies latest jw friends
I've been hearing a lot about shunned j.w.'s having to sit in the back of the Kingdom Halls when they go to meetings.
So, what would happen if a new Bible study person went to the Kingdom Hall for Sunday meeting, (or whatever) and sat in the back of the Hall, and talked to the shunned j.w.'s?
Also, are there ALWAYS shunned j.w.'s at the Halls on Sunday?
Do the congregations have an "assigned" area reserved for only the shunned j.w.'s?
Any feedback on this? .....Thanks. ....Hubert
It's been a long time since attended meetings, but new ones are usually love-bombed by the rank-n-file, with little chance of them sitting in the back of the KH by themselves and thereby talking with shunned Witnesses. The few shunned Witnesses who attend usually arrive a little late and leave early, thus the congregation as a whole avoids eye contact with disfellowshipped folks.
When you think about it today, only spoiled brats and cult-like religions act this way.
There are different levels of shunning. The one most often referred to here (and other places) refers to Disfellowshipped (or Df'd) persons. You will likely not find them in the Kingdom hall. I have even heard of some Disfellowshipped persons attending a meeting in defiance only to have the Police called on them.
If you are seeing persons who are visibly and deliberately segregated at a meeting it is more likely that they are being disciplined through a labeling known as reprooving (a reproof). It can come in the form of a "Private" one: where the elders have made this decision but the congregation is kept in the dark and the disciplined person is expected to segregate themselves; or, it can come in the form a of a "Public" one where everyone in the congregation is advised and they may take it upon themselves to participate in the segregation. Either way contact is minimized.
I suppose in a sense this is like a type of shunning but it certainly is not the variety of shunning which occurs when someone is Disfellowshipped. Sunning which occurs to Disfellowshipped persons is extreme, often cruel and heartless and likely would not see that individual anywhere near a Kingdom hall.
I have heard of Disfellowshipped individuals attempting to re-instate themselves (with permission from the elders of course) attending and being segregated much like an individual being reprooved.
If you are seeing persons who are visibly and deliberately segregated at a meeting it is more likely that they are being disciplined through a labeling known as reprooving (a reproof). It can come in the form of a "Private" one: where the elders have made this decision but the congregation is kept in the dark and the disciplined person is expected to segregate themselves
must admit ive never heard of that being done in England happy guy,is that quite common in Canada?
It would be up to the person trying to get reinstated to clear the matter with the new person - if they wanted any chance of getting reinstated that is.
This happened to me when I was coming in and the DF'd person told me that they couldn't speak to me right then and to ask the person studying with me to explain why.
I can't say if it is common. It is a method I noticed was used more often on members who are not baptized and are "falling away from the truth". My ex-wife was one such example. I had surmised that the reason it is used more often with unbaptised persons is probably from a statistical point of view they tended to "fall away form the truth" more often or more easily then baptised persons.
One other thing I noticed is that anytime an individual who Disfellowshipped (an ousting punishment given to baptised persons) or Disassociated (an ousting punishment given to unbaptised persons) came to a meeting (with permission from the elders), it was usually made known to the congregants that this person was attending and would be segregated.
When a person (whether baptised or not) who was under Public Reproof it was announced to the congregants. The difference between the Reprooving and Df'ing or Da'ing is that with the two latter instances the congregants would avoid all contact. Conversation was left to the elders. With the Reprooving conversation was permitted but minimized. With the Private Reprooving the congregants would likely be unaware that the person was being punished. It was left to this individual to segregate themselves where possible unitl the elders felt they were "strong in the truth" again.
I have no idea how rare this last case is. I suspect in the case of my ex she should have been Disassociated or at least Publicly Reprooved (an embarrassment at the least in front of your peers) but she was of the "JW Aristocracy" so she was able to escape the type of punishment which would normally be applied.
This happened to me when I was coming in and the DF'd person told me that they couldn't speak to me right then and to ask the person studying with me to explain why.
I bet that made the person who studied with you feel a little weird having to explain why this loving group of people treated others like they have leprosy.
When my dad was studying (since he was not baptized) the elders asked him to bring a disfellowshipped person
to the KH. as a non-baptized person you are allowed to speak to them (limitedly).
If a baptized brother has to bring them to the meeting, no voice contact would be allowed. I guess the elders
arrange for the pickup and delivery!
Hi Hubert
What a really interesting topic - At my KH there was a sister who was disfellowshipped for a long number of years. She was disfellowshipped because she couldn't give up smoking, but her daughter and son still attended, as did she - every meeting without fail.
As a kid I used to watch how people would recoil and behave as if she had the plague, terrified that if she spoke to them or vice versa that they would lose valuable Paradise Earth entry points. No-one except her son and daughter spoke to her. Her niece also attended our hall, long with her elder husband and their children. I never saw them speak to her at all during the years I spent at the hall. They were of course fine upstanding dubs who were firmly esconsced in the clique. Little did they know that their son introduced me to cigarettes and almost introduced me to the delights of the opposite sex in later years..hee hee but that's another story......
This sister and her son and daughter were treated like outcasts - they always sat at the back, no doubt because they felt that they were somehow inferior to everyone else and they were the black sheep.
I always thought that this was terribly wrong and when I mentioned this to my JW mum she told me that Sister X had numerous chances to 'reform' but could not uphold the standards required (i.e. in this case - stop smoking), therefore it was really her own fault and this was her punishment.
This sister was also excluded from her son and daughter's weddings etc. It was also ironic that Sister X's own sister 'brought my mum into the truth'. This sister also died a few years after I left the KH and I regret that I never had the chance to apologise for my own part in her treatment, albiet it was a minor one as I was only a kid.
The son and daughter and their families are apparently still faithful attenders - but how they could still belong to an organisation which treated their mother so shabbily is beyond my comprehension.
It just goes to show how big a mind bender the WBTS really is.
FF
I left the KH and I regret that I never had the chance to apologise for my own part in her treatment, albiet it was a minor one as I was only a kid.
FF -- I too wish I could go back and apologise for the harm that was done when I was a JW. Treating others as less than human is always a shame, and doing it in the name of "love" is about as unloving as it gets. I'm convinced that religion and love don't mix, in many sects; the Jehovah's Witnesses being a good example.
