Okay, most people consider Dinah to be a rape victim. But I have some questions about this. Genesis 34:2 says Shecom ?defiled? Dinah. But goes on to say at Genesis 34:14-15 that Dinah?s brothers say to Shecom and his father ?And they say unto them, we cannot do this thing, to give our sister to one that is uncircumcised; for that were a reproach unto us: But in this will we consent unto you: If ye will be as we be, that every male of you be circumcised.? --Yes, I'm using the King James version. I can see how the word ?defiled? gives the impression of rape, but I?m thinking that because Shecom was uncircumcised and not a Hebrew that even if he didn?t force himself upon her it would have been looked at as a violation. So I?m not convinced Dinah was raped. I'm not looking to start any fights here! I want to know what other people think on this matter. Let's all be calm...think of waterfalls and beaches...before replying. Okay, input?
Dinah, Jacob's daughter...
by under74 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Scully
My personal take on this story is that it reflects the cultural norm of the times. For instance it reflects the notion that a daughter was "property" - notice the way it mentions the brothers discussing "giving" their sister to Shechem. Apparently they had some power or authority in this decision.
The other thing is the notion of sexual activity as being "defiling" even if it was consensual (which I believe it was) - the virgin bride was more highly prized than a girl who lost her virginity. The family could exact a higher bride price for Dinah if she were a virgin.
It also shows an incredibly vengeful spirit on the part of Dinah's brothers: they negotiate with Shechem (again, showing the brothers' authority over the selection of a husband for Dinah) that they will permit the marriage if Shechem and all the males in his family become circumcised. Shechem loved Dina enough and apparently his entire family felt this marriage was a good match because all of them agreed to go through with this painful procedure. This was merely a ruse to have all the men incapacitated with pain, because Dinah's brothers proceded to slaughter all the men in this family.
All this to reinforce to Dinah that she had no right to decide who she would marry, even if she fell in love with someone - it was the brothers' decision to make.
Love, Scully
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DaCheech
I can repeat this many times, and believe me or not..... But, before our modern
era you did not make love to a woman, you had sex. Sex was an act where
a man plopped on top of a woman and drilled away!
By modern standards, that would be defilement!
Anyway, Jacob's sons were cowards, broke a deal, killed innocents, and then took some booty with 'em
perfect people to reflect the qualities of God
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Narkissos
At least one version of the story implies some sort of "violence", at the very least some transgression of the common law. Perhaps "abduction" rather than "rape", inasmuch as what was most lacking was perhaps not the girl's consentment but the family's agreement (more important in those times).
Translated literally v. 2 reads: "he took her and lay her and forced her". The verb corresponding to force (`nh) may also have the meaning of "humiliate". It is used in a similar sexual context in Deuteronomy 21:14 (the "taking" of a captive as a second-rank wife); 22:24,29 (rape or abduction); Judges 19:24; 20:5 (the Gibeah story); 2 Samuel 13:12ff (Amnon); Lamentations 5:11 (war rape); Ezekiel 22:10f (undefined).
The concept of "defilement" suits v. 5,13,27 better, he "made her (ritually) unclean" (tm').
Edited to add: the only people blamed in the story are Simeon and Levi (v. 30f). As often in Genesis, the main patriarchal figures (here Jacob) are peaceful characters, which stand out in sharp contrast to the religious exclusivism of Deuteronomy (7:1ff).
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Princess
I can repeat this many times, and believe me or not..... But, before our modern
era you did not make love to a woman, you had sex. Sex was an act where
a man plopped on top of a woman and drilled away!
Yes, you wrote something similar yesterday yet you never back it up with any proof. What, men were just stupid animals back then but have now somehow evolved into the lovers they are today? Sounds like your reaching...
The Dinah story always bothered me. If he raped her, why was he willing to be circumcised? Not your typical rapist.
Read "The Red Tent" by Anita Diamant. It's fiction but tells the story of Dinah in a completely different light.
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shotgun
Oh my stars...this forum is better than my book of bible stories lately..all of the old Walt Disney classics are being retold.
Any boy who cared enough about a girl to sacrafice something that he had carried with him for over twenty years could not be all that bad...and can you imagine President Bush asking all the men to get circumcized so his son who would be named George as well could marry this cute Canadian girl...but he really loves her guys...hmmm...cuz you know as soon as that happened we'd send Walter and XJW over the border to kick all your asses while your still to sore to move.
That's absurd as well....they had their foreskins removed and were such a bunch of wussies that two men in skirts came in and killed the whole lot of them while they layed there or hobbled around looking for something to protect themselves with...Jesus throw your foreskin at him or something
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shotgun
Applicable to this thread
Back in the olden days when Samurais were important, there was a powerful Japanese Emperor who needed a new Chief Samurai. So he sent out a declaration throughout the entire known world of that time that he was searching for a CHIEF Samurai.
A year passed, but only 3 people applied for the very demanding position;
1. a Japanese Samurai
2. a Chinese Samurai
3. a Jewish Samurai
The emperor asked the Japanese Samurai to come in and demonstrate why he should be the chief Samurai. The Japanese Samurai opened a match box, and out popped a bumblebee. Whoosh! went his sword, and the bumblebee dropped dead on the ground.
The emperor exclaimed "That is very impressive!"
The emperor then issued the same challenge to the Chinese Samurai, to come in and demonstrate why he should be chosen. The Chinese samurai also opened a match box and out buzzed a fly. Whoosh, Whoosh! Whoosh! Whoosh! And the fly dropped dead on the ground in four small pieces.
The emperor exclaimed: "That is VERY impressive!"
Now the emperor turned to the Jewish Samurai, and asked him to demonstrate why he should be the Chief Samurai. The Jewish Samurai also opened a match box, and out flew a gnat. His flashing sword went Whoosh! But the gnat was still alive and flying around.
The emperor, obviously disappointed, said: "Very ambitious!, but why is that gnat not dead?"
The Jewish Samurai just smiled and said: "Circumcision is not meant to kill."
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DaCheech
The Dinah story always bothered me. If he raped her, why was he willing to be circumcised? Not your typical rapist.
Read "The Red Tent" by Anita Diamant. It's fiction but tells the story of Dinah in a completely different light.
There are sensitive men out there!
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link
A Japanese Samuari met a Gurkah in the jungle. Swish, swish went the Samuaris sword.
"Ha! Ha!, missed me laughed the Gurkah". "Try nodding your head" said the Samuari.
(Why are we hijacking this thread with Samuari jokes?)
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Cicatrix
"Read "The Red Tent" by Anita Diamant. It's fiction but tells the story of Dinah in a completely different light."
I second Princess on that. I was just going to ask if anyone had read it.