Do you still believe that the "Trinity" and
by booker-t 12 Replies latest jw friends
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booker-t
I was visiting a friend of mine who is heavily into the "apostate" movement picketing at every assembly and I mean every assembly of JW's. He has been doing this since he was DF'd in 1993. He has asked me numerous of times to go along with him and picket in front of the assemblies but I always tell him no. One day we were having lunch and I mentioned to him that the "Trinity doctrine" just does not make sense. And he told me it does not make sense because it is false. My mouth almost hit the floor. I just assume that ex-jws that are anti-WTS and picket in front of the assemblies are now trinitarians. He said that is a stereotype people assume that just because you leave JW's that automatically you will start believing in the Trinity and Hellfire doctrine. He said that he still denounces the Trinity as unbiblical as well as the unbiblical Hellfire doctrine he just feels that JW's are wrong on alot of things. So I am taking a survey how many ex-jws out there still feel that the trinity and hellfire doctrines are false?
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Narkissos
He said that is a stereotype people assume that just because you leave JW's that automatically you will start believing in the Trinity and Hellfire doctrine.
There are many other possibilities indeed, as you'll soon gather from this board. Including "you will start questioning the Bible itself and realize that it is actually impossible to derive any belief from it"...
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Mary
I don't believe the doctrine of the Trinity as it makes no sense at all. Jesus was a Jew and Jews have always believed in a monotheist god, not a triune god..........plus I've learned alot in the classes I'm taking in Religion Studies, in particular the NT. I have a feeling that after Jesus died, he was elevated to the position of God by some of his followers, in particular: Paul. That's why there's so many conflicting scriptures in the bible. On one hand, you've got scriptures that indicate that Jesus is not God and is not equal to God. Then you've got scriptures that make it sound like he is God and that he's equal to God.
But then again, Paul never even met Jesus and the NT wasn't written for decades after Jesus died and people's perceptions can change in a very short time frame.
There's a few really good reads on this subject:
The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound by by Anthony Buzzard, Charles F. Hunting
One God & One Lord : Reconsidering the Cornerstone of the Christian Faith by Mark Graeser
When Jesus Became God: The Epic Fight over Christ's Divinity in the Last Days of Rome by Richard Rubenstein
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freedom96
I am not sure how I feel about this subject. Thankfully, I don't feel the need to have every question answered. That being said, it would be interesting to know for certain.
One thing to possibly consider. Perhaps "God" is actually more than just one "being." Perhaps we have it in our head that God just is one being, as apposed to being a group of beings. A possible weak example might be a family. Lets call them the Jones family. Well, there is Dad Jones, as well as son Steve Jones, and another son John Jones. They are all Jones. There are 3 of them, but each one is rightfully a Jones.
Maybe there are indeed 3 parts to God. All being "God" but having different responsiblities and uses.
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Leolaia
1) Some form of the "hell doctrine" is definitely biblical. It may be distasteful to our sensibilities, but the Pharisee Judaism that was accepted by many early Christians definitely taught in a final judgment that separated people (resurrected and living) into two groups, one that will be tormented forever in the fires of Gehenna and the other group destined to blessedness. See my post on this:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/71230/1.ashx
Note that Jude, considered Scripture by the Society, directly quotes from 1 Enoch on the matter of "Judgment Day" and the latter work is very explicit on the matter of eternal punishment in fire, and Jude 7 similarly refers to the "punishment of eternal fire".
2) The Trinity is not biblical in that it is an artificial compromise of a varied assortment of different christologies in the NT, and it also delineates the nature of relationships within the Trinity with an exactness that is not found in the NT. However, all modern christologies -- including the Watchtower's -- are artificial compromises of NT data, and I regard the Trinity as more faithful to the more advanced NT christologies than the christology proffered by the Society. I also regard most of the central claims of the Trinity doctrine to have NT precedents. On this subject, here is my post exploring the conception of the Holy Spirit in the NT:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/69107/1.ashx
And here is my post on triadic formulae in the NT:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/70746/1.ashx
I also have to say that the Trinity broshure is an unfortunately deceptive piece of misinformation.
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target
Nope. No Trinity.No Hellfire No Bible
Why do you think that if we finally figured out we had been believing a fantasy, that we would drop that one for another? It never occurred to me to go back to those old teachings, or any teachings for that matter.
Target
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binadub
The Trinity doctrine and Hell-Fire doctrine are definitely FALSE! That is two things the WTS was right about. (Course, they did not originate these premises.)
Most exJWs that I know do not support the Trinity and Hell-Fire doctrines.
Bintheredonethat
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Leolaia
I completely understand how others can say that hellfire is biblical. If one knows some of the first century jewish beliefs about judgement day, then one can plainly see gehenna for what it is in the NT. Doesn't mean I have to accept it though, because I don't believe that a loving God would work that way.
Right....I distinguish the two as well. Rather than a mirror of God's will and purposes, I regard the Bible as a kaleidoscope of different visions of what people thought God ought to be.
Behind the Jewish concept of a final judgment and eternal damnation of God's enemies, I see a persecuted people oppressed by foreigners (and divided into different camps, each believing itself to be the "true" faith) who strongly desired to control their destiny and see their enemies receive exactly what they deserve. The idea of a final judgment, in Jewish apocalypse, was usually linked to the restoration of Israel or a broader collectivity of "God's people".
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Black Sheep
In the beginning Man created God: and in the image of Man he created him
2: And Man gave unto God a multitude of names, that he might be Lord over
all the earth when it was suited to Man.
3: And on the seven millionth day Man rested and did lean heavily on his God
and saw that it was good.
4: And Man formed Aqualung of the dust of the ground, and a host of others
likened unto his kind.
5: And these lesser men Man did cast into the void. And some were burned;
and some were put apart from their kind.
6: And Man became the God that he had created and with his miracles did rule
over all the earth.
7: But as all these things did come to pass, the Spirit that did cause man
to create his God lived on within all men: even within Aqualung.
8: And man saw it not.
9: But for Christ's sake he better start looking.Ian Anderson
When I first saw this I though it was rather naughty and hid the album (Aqualung) from my parents. It survived, the same can't be said for the Court of the Crimson King which had its cover ripped off by my mother because she didn't like it